CaseyContrarian wrote:hokahey wrote:CaseyContrarian wrote:Private property that serves the public is not actually private.
Of course it is. The "private" part refers to ownership, not accessiblity.
Preventing me from patronizing your public establishment based on my skin color is hostile to my exercise of individual liberty.
No it's not. Your individual liberty has nothing to do with being allowed to patronize my business. Your rights are not being infringed upon in any way. You have not contributed tax dollars for my existence and are not required in any way to utilize my services.
Take what you're saying a step further. What about dress codes? They discriminate against the poor. No shirt, no shoes, no service? Discriminatory against hippies!
I think instinctually most people react emotionally at the thought of permitted racism, but we do it every day by allowing clan meetings and racist publications. We can't just stifle the ability of people we disagree with to practice their beliefs.
Privately owned establishments that serve the public must comply with basic accessibility mandates, one of which is not to discriminate based on race. Such provisions were made law so as to expand the liberties of a portion of the public which previously had their freedoms significantly curtailed by socially regressive customs, even after their emancipation from actual slavery. Encroachment upon freedom isn't always merely punitive, as in a taking of liberty (which libertarians and objectivists limit to individual choice), but also the general restrictions upon participation in and access to the useful and/or edifying aspects of society. There is no "my freedom ends where yours begins," as there is no diminishing of freedom in compelling equal service to those guaranteed the same constitutional rights as oneself. if anything, it's a furtherance of both parties' liberties through implied or actual reciprocity.
If you can't grok that, I can't help you.
PS: I'm not sure Hooters is particularly hygienic.
No law was ever necessary to turn the tide on the rights of blacks. It was the power of the people that changed our country. It wasn't the signing in to law of an act that can be ignored so long as you lie about the discrimination. I've been in management. I've been in Human Resources. I've seen time and time again where everyone that doesn't get the position they want calls the EEOC and claims discrimination. The EEOC would call us and we'd explain that it was actually due to X, Y, Z and that was that. It always struck me how if we really had been discriminating against them it would have been very easy to make it appear completely legal.
That doesn't take in to account harrasment, lower pay for women etc etc but those issues are resolved with stronger contract law and again doesnt require "equality" laws.
Additionally, small businesses are hampered and inhibited by the over abundance regulations that require wheel chair ramps, parking spaces and so on.
There are stories of police officers shutting down little girl's lemonade stands for lacking a permit for gods sake.
As a nation completely broke and still facing record unemployment we need to ask ourselved if we're regulating people out of business. Even Obama in his SOTU address made it a point to discuss useless regulations the government was relaxing or eliminating to try and foster business growth.
The ideals you advocate for would require me to ensure your every need is met in order to sell my wares. If I want to offer my services around, that should be my right to do so. It is NOT your right to have access to my wares.
Now, if you're discussing a government service, or a utility that works with the government as a monopoly, you SHOULD be ensured equal rights and access.
Im sure you can grok the difference between private and public services.