New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

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New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby Noonesshocking » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:15 pm

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/intervie ... onths.html

Great interview. Glad to see he's back in the game. Has some interesting things to say about Jane's.
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby blackcoffee » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:05 pm

Yeah. I enjoyed that. The fact that NS and Ritual were basically written during the same period suggests that whatever creative fervor Perry had was very short lived. Sure, there are hints of what he was on both Porno records, but truthfully, the first Porno didn't age well. It's raw, Pete's sound is amazing, but it's not visionary from Perry's input.
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby Pandemonium » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:28 pm

blackcoffee wrote:Yeah. I enjoyed that. The fact that NS and Ritual were basically written during the same period suggests that whatever creative fervor Perry had was very short lived. Sure, there are hints of what he was on both Porno records, but truthfully, the first Porno didn't age well. It's raw, Pete's sound is amazing, but it's not visionary from Perry's input.


It's interesting, but a lot of LA area bands from The Doors, to Van Halen to Janes and Guns n' Roses all pretty much had their most fertile creative period during the time up to when they got signed. They all have something in common in that they built up a repertoire of dozens of songs and played them in local clubs to hone them down to more or less a finished state that would carry them through their first several albums. Knowing the Janes demos and what they were playing just before they recorded Ritual, you can see exactly what Jerden is talking about when he basically split most of the demos between NS and RDLH with the band coming up with a few newer songs before they went back in the studio in '90 for Ritual to fill out that album. I really think if they had kept it together and recorded another (and beyond) album after RDLH in the early 90's, it would have been a relatively weak album compared to the prior records - they just burned through just about everything they had in the tank when they finished Ritual.
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby Six7Six7 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:29 pm

Once Casey and Perry broke up, Perry just didn't ever find anyone else to write lyrics quite like she did.

A shame.
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby Hokahey » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:38 pm

Based on that, I'm guessing that "here we go" starting ceach album had something to do with Jerden.
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby kv » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:41 am

As I like to say...bands wait their entire life for their first record...then 12 months for the next...only makes sense the first records are more often then not better
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby Hype » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:37 am

I've always been puzzled by what exactly was contributed by each member (and production people) for those first two albums... We know that a bunch of the songs were originally written and performed by just Perry and Eric, and we know that a bunch of guitar and drum stuff was clearly written (if not polished) before Dave and Steve were recruited. But there were only around 45 original songs (including throwaways like Maceo and TYB and I think this even includes the covers on XXX). City was recorded without half the band...

So what the hell was Jane's Addiction really? Who was it? I mean: obviously the main thing that made them great was Perry's insane persona live and the energy/danger the band had in those shows from 86-91. But they were performing music. Songs. But a lot of these must have been completely conceived between September 1985 and January 1986. And it doesn't seem like they were ideas anyone had lying around, because the creative style of the members prior to this was totally different (thrash metal, goth/Joy Division wannabe, marching band...)

Porno seemed to begin with a bunch of JA throwaways/unfinished business at first, and Deconstruction had a bit of that going on too (in fact, it seemed to have been conceived as precisely the putting to rest of that era...).

It sort of looks like the vast majority of Jane's Addiction was crafted in a four month period, with some studio ideas thrown in somewhat randomly.
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby Matz » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:07 am

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
It sort of looks like the vast majority of Jane's Addiction was crafted in a four month period, with some studio ideas thrown in somewhat randomly.


if that's the case, it's pretty amazing. The ghost guitar player who wrote a lot of the riffs and stuff should receive a lot of credit I suppose
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby Hype » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:11 am

Matz wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:
It sort of looks like the vast majority of Jane's Addiction was crafted in a four month period, with some studio ideas thrown in somewhat randomly.


if that's the case, it's pretty amazing. The ghost guitar player who wrote a lot of the riffs and stuff should receive a lot of credit I suppose


Chris Brinkman was one of them... and a guy named "Ed"... who I think is dead...

Which is totally not who this song is about:


Matt Chaikin of Kommunity FK was the original drummer.

Here: http://janesaddiction.org/tour/show/jan ... 01-10/407/

Lineup: Perry Farrell
Eric Avery
Matt Chaikin
Ed Dobrydnio

Setlist:
Whores
Pigs In Zen
Mountain Song
Idiots Rule
Kettle Whistle
Ain't No Right
Had A Dad
My Time
I Got A Right (Iggy & The Stooges)
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby Six7Six7 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:17 am

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
So what the hell was Jane's Addiction really? Who was it?


Perry Farrell: Vocals
Eric Avery: Bass
Casey Niccoli: Lyrics
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby Hype » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:18 am

Six7Six7 wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:
So what the hell was Jane's Addiction really? Who was it?


Perry Farrell: Vocals
Eric Avery: Bass
Casey Niccoli: Lyrics


Flea: Trumpet / French Horn (and later, Bass)? :wiggle:
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby Jasper » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:55 am

Six7Six7 wrote:Perry Farrell: Vocals
Eric Avery: Bass
Casey Niccoli: Lyrics


You never get sick of this one, do you? Is it because you can't help liking the lyrics, and can't square that with your insistence that Perry was always a talentless hack?

Perry had some talent. Perhaps he could have had a middling amount of talent throughout his life, but consciously or not, he ended up using his lifetime's worth in the course of just a few years. I don't know if we can call this a choice/strategy, but it was probably for the best. He's managed to coast a long way on that initial burst, whereas if it had been evenly distributed throughout his life we'd never have heard of him.
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby Pandemonium » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:21 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:It sort of looks like the vast majority of Jane's Addiction was crafted in a four month period, with some studio ideas thrown in somewhat randomly.


Clearly, a fair number of key songs that showed up on the 3 albums including Mountain Song, Ain't No Right, Whores, Has A Dad, Pigs In Zen and Idiots Rule had their genesis in late '85 before Dave and Stephen joined in Jan/Feb of '86. But right away, looking at setlists for shows that year in the Spring and through the end of '86, a lot of their more atmospheric and conversely guitar-driven music was now being written and club-tested with Dave and Stephen now in the band including songs like Ocean Size, Up The Beach, Summertime Rolls and Stop. By the following Spring of '87, they pretty much had just about all the songs used for the three albums and were playing them live and were about to be signed to Warner Bros.

Creatively, about an 18 month stretch from Dec '85 to Summer '87 is when they came up with almost all their classic material. I think around the time they started heavily touring nationwide in late '87 and '88, opening for The Ramones and Love and Rockets among others and later headlining is where they started shifting their focus and energy towards becoming a solid live act and writing more new material tailed off.
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby Noonesshocking » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:40 pm

Could the old guys be entitled to writing credits? I think Dave and Stephen were THE guys and obviously made essential creative contribution, but I wonder how much they were just playing parts that had already been written (at least when they first joined).
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby Hype » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:51 pm

I was pretty sure the claim was that EA wrote the guitar and bass for those songs, but they were originally played with just the bass and vox and a drum machine. So if Perk just played the same drums as Chaikin, then maybe he'd be in line... but I'm not sure. I think that's not quite how writing credits work.
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby Six7Six7 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:45 pm

Jasper wrote:
Six7Six7 wrote:Perry Farrell: Vocals
Eric Avery: Bass
Casey Niccoli: Lyrics


You never get sick of this one, do you? Is it because you can't help liking the lyrics, and can't square that with your insistence that Perry was always a talentless hack?



I contend that his artist girlfriend contributed the good lyrics to Jane's Addiction's first 2 albums.

I believe he wrote songs like My Cat's Name is Maceo and Been Caught Stealin' though.

I believe he had a ghost writer for Strays.

I believe he wrote the lyrics for TGEA

I think Pete wrote the lyrics for PFP.

I think Perry and Etty write the lyrics for Satellite Party/PerryEtty.
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby Pandemonium » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:17 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:I was pretty sure the claim was that EA wrote the guitar and bass for those songs, but they were originally played with just the bass and vox and a drum machine. So if Perk just played the same drums as Chaikin, then maybe he'd be in line... but I'm not sure. I think that's not quite how writing credits work.


It really depends on a band by band basis whatever songwriting arrangements the guys in a former or current lineup agree to. Some bands actually make an agreement to split songwriting credits equally among the band members even if most of the songwriting actually comes from one or two key players. Some bands divide up the credits on a song by song basis to the responsible writers. Some artists like Springsteen claim sole credit and the band is basically (his) backing band.

Considering Chaikin, Brinkman and whoever else was in the band for the few months before Perkins and Navarro joined never come up with anything of note to this day, I believe the assertion that Eric and Perry in that order came up with that first batch of songs with minor at best contributions from the other two guys. At the very least, they worked out an agreement over who would get credit and publishing for the early songs as you'd think if anyone had a leg to stand on, Mountain Song at least would be the most likely contested song for publishing rights at some point in the succeeding years after NS was released.
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby bman » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:01 pm

The Mystique of Jane's lives on. That's why I love them and this site. Can someone throw that 1st show without Dave and Perk on youtube for me? I can't seem to find it anywhere. I had the flacs but lost that computer. Perry and Avery came up with 90% of the ideas and structures to all those songs.
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby kv » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:23 pm

Good to see people finally clueing in on how much of janes was avery
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Re: New Dave Jerden Interview - Talks Jane's

Postby panicparty » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:41 am

Good to see people finally clueing in on how much of janes was avery


Is this new? I thought that was the standard narrative on Jane's?

You see, where I have some respect for Perry (and to some extent Dave and Steve) is that they were taking a big risk with their artistic credibility when Eric rejoined the band.

There's been, from my limited reading, three main schools of thought on the greatness of Jane's

1) It was mainly Perry
2) It was mainly down to Eric
3) it was Perry and Eric when they still liked each other and could sit down together and write

with a general consensus that Dave and Perk weren't crucial to the songwriting, but certainly brought some magic to live proceedings.

Perry has spent the last 25 years telling world it was (1).

So around the time of the NME show, it looks like this:

Perry's latest project (sp) has bombed completely, the band fell apart mid-tour and on youtube now it's like watching Spinal Tap - some bigger, confident, shows at the start, then by the end it's bad Karaoke Jane's in half empty bars.

Dave's still remembered as much as a "failed Chilli Pepper" as the Jane's guy. His (along with Perk and Chaney) last project (TPC) has bombed at least as badly as satellite party and the only gig they can get is as support act for a made-up-for-reality-tv group that was never going anywhere.

The last Jane's thing (Strays), and the only album without Eric, while it hasn't tanked by the standards of TGEA, has hardly set the world on fire and could legitimately be thought of as a disappointment.

So, at this point Eric rejoins the band, as the only person with nothing to lose reputation wise, having not done anything of any real note since Jane's.

If Jane's fails to set the world alight, no change on 2003.

If, on the other hand, Jane's comes back like the Chilli's did when Fru rejoined, and they go on to be even more successful than first time around, everyone points to the change, the one thing that's different from the Strays era: Eric. The story becomes that Perry (and Dave) can't do it without Eric.... and furthermore it answers for everyone, that original question about where the greatness of Jane's came from: it was Eric.

While I'm on the subject (sorry to go on) I also thought it was fairly courageous of Perry and the others the way they were explicit about their songwriting deficit when it came to do TGEA - they were pretty upfront when Eric left that they needed, not just someone who could play the bass guitar (Dave coulda done that, or they could have hired Chaney) but someone who could come in and song-write. First it was Duff, then when that didn't work out, they got that other bloke in. Given the egos and pride involved, it must have taken something for those guys to effectively 'fess up that as a three-piece they didn't have it in them to write an album?

One more thing, on that time line where the vast bulk of the classic era Jane's material was written in the first year, year and a half - rather than it being because they'd burned up all their talent and their best riffs early, or that they changed focus to their live shows, I thought it was simply that Eric and Perry had fallen out (over a girl?) and effectively the songwriting partnership ended when the friendship did?
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