Pandemonium wrote:[/img]
BTW, is this guy 6767?
they are both very prettyhokahey wrote:Pandemonium wrote:[/img]
BTW, is this guy 6767?
Why would that matter? You think kids can't understand irony? (Surely you don't believe they named it that because they like Nazism... A band with a song named after a Gogol book can't possibly be so simplisticPandemonium wrote:the band was named after a Nazi Concentration Camp's sex slave hall.
) I mean, I know adults have serious trouble grasping it... but kids are so pliable and intuitive (and lacking a lifetime of biases and confusions) -- it shouldn't be a problem. It's not a matter of who gets it or who doesn't, it's the fact that *Disney* apparently didn't bother to do even the most cursory bit of research on the background of their subject before they chose this type of art for what's basically a Mickey Mouse shirt.Adurentibus Spina wrote:Why would that matter? You think kids can't understand irony? (Surely you don't believe they named it that because they like Nazism... A band with a song named after a Gogol book can't possibly be so simplisticPandemonium wrote:the band was named after a Nazi Concentration Camp's sex slave hall.
I think a better explanation is that they did a shitload of research and realized Hipsters are a big market and would pay $$$$ for that exact shirt. (It is sold out, after all. And Hipsters are having kids... so they can be the "cool ironic dad" with the Joy Division Mickey shirt and their kid can wear the "real mickey" shirt non-ironically).Pandemonium wrote:It's not a matter of who gets it or who doesn't, it's the fact that *Disney* apparently didn't bother to do even the most cursory bit of research on the background of their subject before they chose this type of art for what's basically a Mickey Mouse shirt.Adurentibus Spina wrote:Why would that matter? You think kids can't understand irony? (Surely you don't believe they named it that because they like Nazism... A band with a song named after a Gogol book can't possibly be so simplisticPandemonium wrote:the band was named after a Nazi Concentration Camp's sex slave hall.
... Maybe. I wonder what the surviving members of Joy Division think about their album art basically being plagiarized? You don't think they OK'd this do you?Adurentibus Spina wrote:I think a better explanation is that they did a shitload of research and realized Hipsters are a big market and would pay $$$$ for that exact shirt. (It is sold out, after all. And Hipsters are having kids... so they can be the "cool ironic dad" with the Joy Division Mickey shirt and their kid can wear the "real mickey" shirt non-ironically).
It seems likely, since they can't exactly live off of album royalties anymore.Pandemonium wrote:... Maybe. I wonder what the surviving members of Joy Division think about their album art basically being plagiarized? You don't think they OK'd this do you?Adurentibus Spina wrote:I think a better explanation is that they did a shitload of research and realized Hipsters are a big market and would pay $$$$ for that exact shirt. (It is sold out, after all. And Hipsters are having kids... so they can be the "cool ironic dad" with the Joy Division Mickey shirt and their kid can wear the "real mickey" shirt non-ironically).
I'm imagining a slew of Mickey Mouse/rock album t-shirts taken from iconic albums like Nirvana's Nevermind, U2's War and Van Halen's 1984.chaos wrote:Imagine the new Disney ride that is on its way.
Well something is needed to go with the shoes!Pandemonium wrote: I'm imagining a slew of Mickey Mouse/rock album t-shirts taken from iconic albums like Nirvana's Nevermind
June 09, 2007
Joy Division New Balance Sneakers Really Limited Edition: One pair only
. . .
“It was an art project. Period.”
What started as a fan’s expression of admiration and devotion, became an online feeding frenzy of response from fans—some praise, some mocking, often crying sacrilege. New York dubbed the pairing “despicable.” The Guardian asked “Is an Ian Curtis Happymeal next?” All in all, this mysterious pair of white sneakers are a real phenomenon, so we talked with the designer that set it all off.
. . .
Do you think that fans want to believe that these are real?
My sense is that most fans want me dead and buried (laughs). I think that the most interesting thing about this whole thing has been the reaction of Joy Division fans. It’s been a mixed bag to say the least. It’s that age-old debate about music and artists being co-opted, commercialized, and taken advantage of. No one came right out and said it, but I’m sure that more than a few people figured that was my goal. Not at all. People pay tribute in different ways all the time. Raf Simons got access to Peter Saville’s graphic archive in 2003 and used them as the basis for his Autumn/Winter couture collection. Supreme used the artwork from Joy Division’s Unknown Pleasures album and New Order’s Blue Monday 12” for skateboards and merchandise just a couple of years later. The fact is that the band were great and people find different ways to express their appreciation for the bands they love. For as much as I love Joy Division and New Order’s music, I love their sense of play and irreverence. I remember reading that the band – in the months following Ian’s death – used to see fans showing up at gigs wearing Ian’s signature trench coat and standing – brooding – in the corner. It aggravated them enough that they would just end up playing more “disco-y” or electronic based tunes to shine them on. I think that’s a riot, and I think it’s the mark of a band that’s never lost the ability to laugh at themselves, even while making what I feel is an immeasurable contribution to modern music. I’d like to think that the band are laughing equally hard at the idea of a Joy Division shoe as they are the fans making such a huge deal out of it.
. . .
Is Ian Curtis rolling in his grave?
Oh man, I’m never going to live that down. I hope not. Does Peter Hook take names every time another aspiring bassist starts choking up on the fret board and playing like a lead? I’m guessing not. So much of his (Ian’s) life is still a mystery to those closest to him. Who can honestly say what he would think about this or anything else. It’s often said that he couldn’t take the pressure or that the attention was too much. I think that’s bullshit. I think he would be equal parts thrilled and annoyed by how many bands today sound like Joy Division did in ‘79. What I do know, having had some experience of a loved one suffering from illness and depression, is that you never know and to assume anything about really knowing what it’s like to suffer and struggle through, that is futile. Whether his death adds to his mystique doesn’t make a lick of difference to me. He was an innovator, a great songwriter and a true performer. Given their popularity 30 years later, I’m clearly not the only one who thinks so.
Do you think a band like Joy Division is too precious for this type of pop ephemera?
No. What I do think is that the band members should be the ones to decide. I was joking about this with a friend not long ago saying that It would have been more appropriate for the band mates to each have some soccer casuals done up for them in the color of their favorite clubs. Maybe that would have more to do with who they are today. I think the problem with merchandise is often that it is not done with the band in mind. The Rolling Stones and KISS are great examples of bands that control their image with an iron fist. Sure it comes across as excessive at times, but you never get the sense that things are being handled with reckless abandon. I think that Joy Division fans especially would expect that the band’s interests, integrity and their involvement be essential in whatever product is made.
Pandemonium wrote:http://www.disneystore.com/tees-clothes ... 4/1000228/
Disney is actually selling a Mickey Mouse shirt based on the classic Joy Division "Unknown Pleasures" album cover (it's in the shape of MM's head). Guess no one in marketing recalled Ian Curtis hanging himself or the fact the band was named after a Nazi Concentration Camp's sex slave hall. The biggest irony is if anyone pilfered any Disney character, their lawyers would be on the offenders like flies on shit.:
BTW, is this guy 6767?
Jasper wrote:I'm imagining 6767 shopping NS or RDLH inside the Mickey shape.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_b ... irony.htmlPandemonium wrote:I wonder what the surviving members of Joy Division think about their album art basically being plagiarized?
Disney's Joy Division shirt: Peter Hook 'appreciates the irony'
January 24, 2012 | 2:24 pm
Many fans of Joy Division were aghast Monday over Disney’s new Mickey Mouse T-shirt that (lovingly or cluelessly) riffed on the Manchester, England, post-punk band’s iconic album art for 1979's “Unknown Pleasures.” Our own commenters called it “wrong, just wrong” and the “worst shirt ever.” But the design’s unlikely pairing of one of the most tragic acts in rock music with one of the most recognizable images of childhood has at least one begrudging fan: Peter Hook, bassist for Joy Division and New Order.
“I take it as a compliment,” Hook said, adding that to his knowledge, Disney didn’t approach representatives handling Factory Records’ catalog or the surviving members of Joy Division for permission. “If I had a pound for every time someone bootlegged Joy Division, I’d be as rich as Disney. But it’s interesting in a kitsch way. It’s this cross between something very adult and this well-known image of childhood. I’ve heard it’s sold out, so maybe it’ll become a kind of urban legend.”
It turns out that the question of licensing the album’s pulse-wave imagery doesn’t apply here. The original image, a diagram of waves from the first known pulsar recording published in the Cambridge Encyclopedia of Astronomy, is in the public domain.
The “Unknown Pleasures” album art didn’t include any other identifying information on the front cover, so it’s a rare occasion of an instantly recognizable cover that anyone is, essentially, free to repurpose. The Disney shirt, while claiming to have been inspired by Joy Division, doesn’t use the band’s name on the item, so there’s not much the band could even do to contest it (even if the branding wisdom of Disney appropriating an image associated with a rock band defined by sonic bleakness and its young singer’s suicide is debatable).
Hook, who was clearly amused to field questions about this incident while in the middle of a day of writing for an upcoming Joy Division biography, is inclined to take the allusion as proof that the band’s musical legacy (and the beloved graphic design work of Factory Records’ Peter Saville) remains potent, even if the band never set out to be brand-able.
“When Joy Division began, we didn’t believe in doing promotion. We didn’t do shirts, because we thought that cheapened the music. When you’re young and idealistic, something like this would bother you," he said. “But in old age, you can appreciate the irony.”
Of course, the band’s other album art and music are thoroughly copyrighted, and Hook says he casually polices the market for the more flagrant Joy Division bootlegs, usually asking the infringer only for a donation to an epilepsy charity (the band's singer, Ian Curtis, suffered debilitating seizures).
But this, the unexpected use of Joy Division imagery by Disney, comes at a time when Hook is deeply involved in re-assessing the band’s career. Hook (who is on famously bad terms with the remaining members of Joy Division and New Order, the band formed by JD's surviving members after Curtis' suicide in 1980) recently came off a tour where he and his band the Light performed Joy Division’s two albums (the other being 1980’s “Closer”) start to finish.
For all the tragedy associated with Joy Division, Hook said his years in that band were some of the most optimisic of his musical life, and he welcomed the chance to revisit them and perform from those records.
And if that look backward includes an accidental Disney cross-promotion? Well, he’ll take it as an implicit salute from a company that knows from impactful images.
“Before New Order split up in 2006, it felt OK to ignore Joy Division, and we did,” he said. “But as soon as we split, I thought, ‘Why not celebrate it?’ They were planning a celebration of Ian’s life in his hometown of Macclesfield, and we never really played from ‘Closer’ because of Ian's death. I really enjoyed playing those songs again; Joy Division was such an enjoyable time as a young man. We were very strong musically, and only Ian’s illness brought us down. But he was really enthusiastic and we all wanted the band to succeed. And if old Walt Disney gives a few more young people a chance to discover and listen to that music, well, that’s very flattering.
