Meditation

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SR
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Meditation

#1 Post by SR » Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:22 am

Anyone?

Recently read Dan Harris 10% Happier.....interesting take on the old Hindu tradition. Too, the studies from Harvard and others reveal some data that supports it's benefits. Entities as diverse as Proctor & Gamble to the Marine Corps have signed on. Waking Up by Sam Harris is about it.....haven't read it though.....yet.

I have always been very cynical about it, and still don't appreciate it's unwillingness to break from it's quasi religious roots even though practitioners insist its utility works independent of it.

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Hype
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Re: Meditation

#2 Post by Hype » Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:43 am

Real meditation, of the kind that monks do that has been more extensively clinically studied, is really, really difficult. It's not relaxation, it's intense concentration of a very specific kind.

Mindfulness, etc., are imho likely to be placebo.

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Matz
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Re: Meditation

#3 Post by Matz » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:40 am

I've dabbled a bit over the years in meditation, but I've never made it a habit. It's hard to sit there for 20-30 minutes and try and keep thinking to a minimum. I watched the video below and it made me pick meditation up again a bit in the past month. I can have really cool blissful moments during a 20 minute eg session but a lot of time I end up thinking too much. In the video he says you should just keep at it and that'll take years before you're "good", but I don't know if I'm built for it. I'm sure it's beneficial though, but so much so that it's worth spending 30 minutes every day doing it? :noclue: Good question. Cool and smart people like Rick Rubin, David Lynch, Howard Stern love it, so you'd think there's something there though..


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SR
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Re: Meditation

#4 Post by SR » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:47 am

I am still investigating all this, but from what I have gathered so far (in addition to it's stubborn adherence to religion/religiosity) it is remarkably void of any communal effects. It is so personal, singular, and self promoting that it could be argued as unethical.

On the other hand, Harvard nd Yale studies have shown increases in grey matter and other benefits as well. Personal testimonials from well educated skeptic types too have reported boosts in mental health that extend beyond any kum bay ya moments captured while engaged in the practice. Less irritability, sounder sleep, and more seem to be universally reported.

Still looking. Haven't actually 'performed' or attempted it, but I have been struck by what is reported in meditation as strikingly close to what I experience while at the gym, or listening to music, or skiing, or reading shakes....a completely quiet mind except for an eager engagement in the focus on these. The main difference is my mind purge of all "clutter' while focusing on these things is completely involuntary, whereas the more formal meditation is quite forced and determined.

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Hype
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Re: Meditation

#5 Post by Hype » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:44 am

I'd like to see a study that compares a baseline of healthy adults who don't exercise or meditate or do anything specifically aimed at improving well-being (I mean fads), versus those who run 30 minutes a day 3-5x a week, versus those who meditate, versus those who do some combination of running/meditating, vs. those who do other things (recreational [team] sports, or other fitness activities -- yoga comes to mind...). It's very difficult to quantify the benefits of any of these things directly, and probably even harder to compare them.

There's some evidence for lots of things being beneficial to health/well-being... but an actual human doing them is much different from a statistical correlation.

One question for those studies of meditation that seem to show benefits is: what exactly do the participants do? Do they all understand what meditation is supposed to be? Do they simply gain from relaxing without distraction for some extra period of time every day? Do they develop better breathing techniques that quantifiably increase blood oxygen levels? Otherwise it seems so intangible and diffuse that who the hell knows...

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SR
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Re: Meditation

#6 Post by SR » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:07 am

The study you'd like to see would be informative, but those you dismiss are on actual humans....sample groups, and the research is new.

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Hype
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Re: Meditation

#7 Post by Hype » Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:38 pm

Of course the studies are done on actual humans. I meant it's far different for an actual human to act on the basis of statistics (i.e., the studies) and achieve a result in line with those statistics. It's one thing to produce studies that statistically correlate, e.g., the Mediterranean diet with longevity or heart health. It's a different thing entirely for (especially non-Mediterranean people) to try to implement that diet in a manner that produces the desired effect in a somewhat ad hoc, or perfunctory (or even the opposite), way. Especially without expert guidance and oversight.

blackcoffee
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Re: Meditation

#8 Post by blackcoffee » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:04 am

My attempt to get clean back in 1994 led me to Santa Cruz where I lived in a halfway house with a bunch of ex cons, dope fiends, and one frat boy. I found a book there called "We're All Doing Time" by Bo Lozoff. It was written by Bo Lozoff, a man who started something called the Prison Ashram Project. He posits that time in prison can be very similar to the life of a monk among other things. I was initially dismissive of the silly illustrations found in the book, but a couple of things I'd never heard before really struck me: he suggests the connection between Ohm and Amen. The nature of a spiritual sound. Spirit = Breath. He writes a lot about breath and breathing, and points out that the the word, "inspiration" is rooted in the notion of drawing a breath. Heady stuff.

Anyway, it's an odd cultural artifact from the late 70s/early 80s that I connected with despite myself. It lays out some basic meditation practices that were very useful to me.

SR, your point about meditation being so personal and singular is also touched on in the book. Lozoff describes people who are on such a spiritual path as potentially coming across as aloof, or disconnected from the everyday because, in fact, they are.

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SR
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Re: Meditation

#9 Post by SR » Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:03 pm

:tiphat:

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