Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#101 Post by CaseyContrarian » Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:59 pm

It's simple, really: Tom Waits stayed cool, interesting and enigmatic.

Perry did none of those things.
Six7Six7 wrote:
creep wrote:what surprises me looking at the charts is that tom waits new release more than doubled jane's at 61K without a major label promoting it. i just didn't think the guy was that popular still. :noclue:
The halloween party i was at this weekend was jamming his new album.

Meanwhile i have asked several friends who like Jane's if they heard the new album and the response was "Jane's Addiction has a new album?" or "i thought they were broken up"

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#102 Post by JOEinPHX » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:25 pm

Tyler Durden wrote:
Six7Six7 wrote:Meanwhile i have asked several friends who like Jane's if they heard the new album and the response was "Jane's Addiction has a new album?" or "i thought they were broken up"
Those are the responses I have received from people too...people who grew up on them and liked them.
They seem to have fallen far off the radar.

And even when they appear, the first words in the article are "after several reunion tours featuring only 3/4 of the original lineup..."

It's all become very negative that they even keep trying. The questions are always "You guys are going on 50, have broken up 7 times, can't stop fighting, and have an album output less than half that of bands you influenced. Have you grown up yet?"

I wouldn't want to record or tour just in order to avoid the question gauntlet. haha

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#103 Post by Larry B. » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:43 pm

I think we've been over this like a million times... but it's Capitol's fault. After all, all promotions (the youtube stuff, the iTunes thingy and a few interviews) seem to have originated in JA's (or Perry's) management.

It's the third time they do this. The fact that they made this mistake is amazing, unbelievable and believable at the same time. They're stupid.

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#104 Post by trevor ayer » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:04 am

plus the album sucks .. never underestimate the power of bad music not to sell

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#105 Post by Larry B. » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:35 am

trevor ayer wrote:plus the album sucks .. never underestimate the power of bad music not to sell
Definitely...

However, never underestimate the power of labels to sell the most hideous pile of shit music.

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#106 Post by creep » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:46 am

Larry B. wrote:
trevor ayer wrote:plus the album sucks .. never underestimate the power of bad music not to sell
Definitely...

However, never underestimate the power of labels to sell the most hideous pile of shit music.
come on now. i'm not a big fan of the album but "the most hideous piece of shit". think you are being a little over dramatic?

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#107 Post by Larry B. » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:51 am

creep wrote:
Larry B. wrote:
trevor ayer wrote:plus the album sucks .. never underestimate the power of bad music not to sell
Definitely...

However, never underestimate the power of labels to sell the most hideous pile of shit music.
come on now. i'm not a big fan of the album but "the most hideous piece of shit". think you are being a little over dramatic?
No, no, I didn't mean that the album is the most hideous piece of shit. I was just saying that even if the album would've been a pile of shit, a good label would have been able to sell it properly. The album is far from being a piece of shit and yet it has sold poorly. JA's job (creating a good product that can be sold) is done. The marketing part didn't work as it should've.

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#108 Post by creep » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:54 am

Larry B. wrote:
creep wrote:
Larry B. wrote:
trevor ayer wrote:plus the album sucks .. never underestimate the power of bad music not to sell
Definitely...

However, never underestimate the power of labels to sell the most hideous pile of shit music.
come on now. i'm not a big fan of the album but "the most hideous piece of shit". think you are being a little over dramatic?
No, no, I didn't mean that the album is the most hideous piece of shit. I was just saying that even if the album would've been a pile of shit, a good label would have been able to sell it properly. The album is far from being a piece of shit.
i don't think bad promotion had anything to do with the poor album sales. it's just what the band has become. they have a loyal live show audience but they are just not a popular band now.

Tyler Durden

Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#109 Post by Tyler Durden » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:05 am

What were people expecting? :confused:

1) The band has never had huge commercial success
2) They've been around for 25 years
3) Their last album was 8 years ago
4) The industry has changed (obviously)

The reason a band like Coldplay outsells Jane's Addiction is because Coldplay was big right out of the gate; they debut album (only 11 years ago) sold more than all Jane's Addiction albums combined. And they are a young band, so they are going to draw sales from young people that still actually buy music. And Jane's sound has never garnered mass appeal. Like Coldplay or not, they appeal to all kinds of people, be it the soccer mom, the people who listened to Depeche Mode and U2 in the late 80s, the present day hipster, etc.

I'm not trying to shit on Jane's here...but it doesn't surprise me whatsoever that the album isn't selling well. It would be like expecting a new album by The Cult to sell well; why would anyone expect a band like that to suddenly receive mass appeal and record sales? I wouldn't even buy a new album by The Cult and they were MY BAND in the 80s before I got into Jane's. And there are a ton of people like that with Jane's Addiction, who were way into them back in the day but lost interest or moved on to other bands.

Again, not knocking them...it just appears clear as day why TGEA is kind of DOA.

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#110 Post by Larry B. » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:08 am

creep wrote:they are just not a popular band now.
That's when a good marketing plan comes in handy. Do you really think bands trying to reach a big audience become popular by magic or by simple word of mouth?

Jane's used to have a fan base for their live shows; then, they released a "live" album that nobody really have a fuck about. WB saw a good business opportunity, invested, and Jane's reached Platinum and double Platinum in the US. In 2003, they signed with Capitol and went Gold; they released 2 compilations with Rhino and they sold nothing (while KW, with Warner, went Gold); now they released another with Capitol and it has sold poorly. Dave also released TNO with Capitol/EMI, and I don't think it went Gold, Silver or anything.

May I also mention Mr. Bungle's case. Popular local-based band; WB saw a business opportunity and the band reached a level of popularity that doesn't really relate to the type of music they play.

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#111 Post by tcrock » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:10 am

creep wrote:
Larry B. wrote:
creep wrote:
Larry B. wrote:
trevor ayer wrote:plus the album sucks .. never underestimate the power of bad music not to sell
Definitely...

However, never underestimate the power of labels to sell the most hideous pile of shit music.
come on now. i'm not a big fan of the album but "the most hideous piece of shit". think you are being a little over dramatic?
No, no, I didn't mean that the album is the most hideous piece of shit. I was just saying that even if the album would've been a pile of shit, a good label would have been able to sell it properly. The album is far from being a piece of shit.
i don't think bad promotion had anything to do with the poor album sales. it's just what the band has become. they have a loyal live show audience but they are just not a popular band now.
this is true.....they never were a real popular band even back in the day......they enjoyed modest popularity in '91, then poof, they were gone. Not sure why people are so obsessed with record sales. I'm amazed it has sold as many as it has.. this site is a pretty good representation of what they could expect in terms of sales. Arguably the most loyal or at least knowledgeable Jane's fans are here.......and about 50% either hate or definitely won't buy the new album.

Tyler Durden

Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#112 Post by Tyler Durden » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:16 am

Larry B. wrote:
creep wrote:they are just not a popular band now.
That's when a good marketing plan comes in handy. Do you really think bands trying to reach a big audience become popular by magic or by simple word of mouth?

Jane's used to have a fan base for their live shows; then, they released a "live" album that nobody really have a fuck about. WB saw a good business opportunity, invested, and Jane's reached Platinum and double Platinum in the US. In 2003, they signed with Capitol and went Gold; they released 2 compilations with Rhino and they sold nothing (while KW, with Warner, went Gold); now they released another with Capitol and it has sold poorly. Dave also released TNO with Capitol/EMI, and I don't think it went Gold, Silver or anything.

May I also mention Mr. Bungle's case. Popular local-based band; WB saw a business opportunity and the band reached a level of popularity that doesn't really relate to the type of music they play.
Uhhhh....Larry, you're talking about a situation (Warner picking up Jane's) from nearly 25 years ago. Music retail is DEAD. Where have you been? :confused:

And the Warner albums went platinum and double platinum after being out for YEARS.

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#113 Post by Larry B. » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:42 am

Tyler Durden wrote:
Larry B. wrote:
creep wrote:they are just not a popular band now.
That's when a good marketing plan comes in handy. Do you really think bands trying to reach a big audience become popular by magic or by simple word of mouth?

Jane's used to have a fan base for their live shows; then, they released a "live" album that nobody really have a fuck about. WB saw a good business opportunity, invested, and Jane's reached Platinum and double Platinum in the US. In 2003, they signed with Capitol and went Gold; they released 2 compilations with Rhino and they sold nothing (while KW, with Warner, went Gold); now they released another with Capitol and it has sold poorly. Dave also released TNO with Capitol/EMI, and I don't think it went Gold, Silver or anything.

May I also mention Mr. Bungle's case. Popular local-based band; WB saw a business opportunity and the band reached a level of popularity that doesn't really relate to the type of music they play.
Uhhhh....Larry, you're talking about a situation (Warner picking up Jane's) from nearly 25 years ago. Music retail is DEAD. Where have you been? :confused:

And the Warner albums went platinum and double platinum after being out for YEARS.
Yes, I know music retail is dead... but even dead as it is, Coldplay can hit 400k+ sales in the first week. That means, there is still an audience that buys records: ergo, you CAN sell records if you market them properly.

The other possibility is that Capitol actually did an outstanding job with promotion, which would mean that Jane's, without said promo, would've sold approximately 37 records. Which would be just plain sad.

Tyler Durden

Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#114 Post by Tyler Durden » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:47 am

Larry B. wrote:
Tyler Durden wrote:
Larry B. wrote:
creep wrote:they are just not a popular band now.
That's when a good marketing plan comes in handy. Do you really think bands trying to reach a big audience become popular by magic or by simple word of mouth?

Jane's used to have a fan base for their live shows; then, they released a "live" album that nobody really have a fuck about. WB saw a good business opportunity, invested, and Jane's reached Platinum and double Platinum in the US. In 2003, they signed with Capitol and went Gold; they released 2 compilations with Rhino and they sold nothing (while KW, with Warner, went Gold); now they released another with Capitol and it has sold poorly. Dave also released TNO with Capitol/EMI, and I don't think it went Gold, Silver or anything.

May I also mention Mr. Bungle's case. Popular local-based band; WB saw a business opportunity and the band reached a level of popularity that doesn't really relate to the type of music they play.
Uhhhh....Larry, you're talking about a situation (Warner picking up Jane's) from nearly 25 years ago. Music retail is DEAD. Where have you been? :confused:

And the Warner albums went platinum and double platinum after being out for YEARS.
Yes, I know music retail is dead... but even dead as it is, Coldplay can hit 400k+ sales in the first week. That means, there is still an audience that buys records: ergo, you CAN sell records if you market them properly.

The other possibility is that Capitol actually did an outstanding job with promotion, which would mean that Jane's, without said promo, would've sold approximately 37 records. Which would be just plain sad.
Refer to my post (a few above) about Coldplay outselling Jane's.

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#115 Post by trevor ayer » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:56 am

c'mon people lets take a hit of reality and pass it around .. IF janes had released a GOOD album it would have sold VERY WELL .. Janes is in the public concious .. they have major label support .. videos .. tv comercials .. sponsoring from big money .. its just not a good record .. yes you could even call it a piece of shit record .. its is literally OFFENSIVE to any old janes fan .. and there is absolutely nothing on there that would appeal to modern music fans .. they try to sound like alanis and coldplay but they are far worse .. and alanis and coldplay make really really bad music .. janes cant even top that .. its pathetic .. i've been working on my remix of the whole record .. about 7 songs in now .. one thing i noticed in the process is that perry fills up every last ounce of every song .. he wont shut the fuck up .. he puts horrid choruses in all the songs save a rare guitar solo .. he starts flapping his gums right out of the gate and does not shut up until the song ends .. hell he even talked when there wasn't a song behind him .. u have dave showing great restraint and for the most part it works, but perry goes overboard .. never has janes music had SO LITTLE space between perrys singing .. i literally have trouble finding even half an instrumental measure to loop without perrys blathering crap all over it .. there are interesting musical changes in the chorus's but perry decided he needs to write a britney spears chorus over everything .. janes should not have a chorus .. did up the beach have a chorus? .. no .. how about 3 days, summertime rolls?, ted? ocean size .. any chorus there? no .. even jane says has NO CHORUS .. just a bridge "she gets mad etc .. " this record is the most douchy of all janes .. strays sucked but this record in ways is much worse .. this record represents dave trying his damnest to make something great .. perry shitting all over his efforts and COMPLETELY taking SELLING OUT to a new level .. perky being bullied into beats a drum machine could handle .. and cheney shrugging his shoulders and sucking his nuts up even futher into his vagina .. ya know what "i'll hit u back" reminds me of? "I would do anything for love" by MEATLOAF .. that is NOT a good thing to be reminded up .. when perry breaks it down to "forget that forget that i wanna hit u back" like he is some tough guy or something or whatever .. its just like when meatloaf gets all dramatic going "i won't do that no i wont do that" after the girl says i know ur gonna cheat on me .. perry isn't gonna hit anything .. he might break a nail ... lil bitch

Tyler Durden

Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#116 Post by Tyler Durden » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:11 am

trevor ayer wrote:c'mon people lets take a hit of reality and pass it around .. IF janes had released a GOOD album it would have sold VERY WELL .. Janes is in the public concious .. they have major label support .. videos .. tv comercials .. sponsoring from big money .. its just not a good record .. yes you could even call it a piece of shit record .. its is literally OFFENSIVE to any old janes fan .. and there is absolutely nothing on there that would appeal to modern music fans .. they try to sound like alanis and coldplay but they are far worse .. and alanis and coldplay make really really bad music .. janes cant even top that .. its pathetic .. i've been working on my remix of the whole record .. about 7 songs in now .. one thing i noticed in the process is that perry fills up every last ounce of every song .. he wont shut the fuck up .. he puts horrid choruses in all the songs save a rare guitar solo .. he starts flapping his gums right out of the gate and does not shut up until the song ends .. hell he even talked when there wasn't a song behind him .. u have dave showing great restraint and for the most part it works, but perry goes overboard .. never has janes music had SO LITTLE space between perrys singing .. i literally have trouble finding even half an instrumental measure to loop without perrys blathering crap all over it .. there are interesting musical changes in the chorus's but perry decided he needs to write a britney spears chorus over everything .. janes should not have a chorus .. did up the beach have a chorus? .. no .. how about 3 days, summertime rolls?, ted? ocean size .. any chorus there? no .. even jane says has NO CHORUS .. just a bridge "she gets mad etc .. " this record is the most douchy of all janes .. strays sucked but this record in ways is much worse .. this record represents dave trying his damnest to make something great .. perry shitting all over his efforts and COMPLETELY taking SELLING OUT to a new level .. perky being bullied into beats a drum machine could handle .. and cheney shrugging his shoulders and sucking his nuts up even futher into his vagina .. ya know what "i'll hit u back" reminds me of? "I would do anything for love" by MEATLOAF .. that is NOT a good thing to be reminded up .. when perry breaks it down to "forget that forget that i wanna hit u back" like he is some tough guy or something or whatever .. its just like when meatloaf gets all dramatic going "i won't do that no i wont do that" after the girl says i know ur gonna cheat on me .. perry isn't gonna hit anything .. he might break a nail ... lil bitch
I think the album would have sold the same amount regardless of the content.

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#117 Post by Larry B. » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:35 am

Tyler Durden wrote:Refer to my post (a few above) about Coldplay outselling Jane's.
:thumb: True that.

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#118 Post by Jasper » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:32 pm

tcrock wrote:Arguably the most loyal or at least knowledgeable Jane's fans are here.......and about 50% either hate or definitely won't buy the new album.
Actually, the simple poll we had showed:

Like - 62%
Dislike - 38%

A lot of those dislikes were definitely not hates, based upon what some people who voted that way explained in the accompanying thread.

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#119 Post by tcrock » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:39 pm

Jasper wrote:
tcrock wrote:Arguably the most loyal or at least knowledgeable Jane's fans are here.......and about 50% either hate or definitely won't buy the new album.
Actually, the simple poll we had showed:

Like - 62%
Dislike - 38%

A lot of those dislikes were definitely not hates, based upon what some people who voted that way explained in the accompanying thread.

Yes I know, take the 38% who dislike, and apply the cheap bastard factor to those who like it, and I think 50% is a reasonable guess at the amount of users who actually forked out the $$ for it. :wink: That might be generous. not scientific, just a gut feel :tiphat:

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#120 Post by JOEinPHX » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:53 pm

tcrock wrote:
Jasper wrote:
tcrock wrote:Arguably the most loyal or at least knowledgeable Jane's fans are here.......and about 50% either hate or definitely won't buy the new album.
Actually, the simple poll we had showed:

Like - 62%
Dislike - 38%

A lot of those dislikes were definitely not hates, based upon what some people who voted that way explained in the accompanying thread.

Yes I know, take the 38% who dislike, and apply the cheap bastard factor to those who like it, and I think 50% is a reasonable guess at the amount of users who actually forked out the $$ for it. :wink: That might be generous. not scientific, just a gut feel :tiphat:
Cheap bastard factor?

It's called living in the 2000s. We don't buy albums.

We do however pay 60 bucks a ticket to see bands with a 25 year career play 70 minutes.

So there is a balance. We get a half-assed show for double the price, and we take their album for free. In the end the band still wins.

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#121 Post by Larry B. » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:59 pm

And we lose :lol: :cona:

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#122 Post by guysmiley » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:06 pm

fuck this band.........

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#123 Post by tcrock » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:34 pm

Six7Six7 wrote:
tcrock wrote:
Jasper wrote:
tcrock wrote:Arguably the most loyal or at least knowledgeable Jane's fans are here.......and about 50% either hate or definitely won't buy the new album.
Actually, the simple poll we had showed:

Like - 62%
Dislike - 38%

A lot of those dislikes were definitely not hates, based upon what some people who voted that way explained in the accompanying thread.

Yes I know, take the 38% who dislike, and apply the cheap bastard factor to those who like it, and I think 50% is a reasonable guess at the amount of users who actually forked out the $$ for it. :wink: That might be generous. not scientific, just a gut feel :tiphat:
Cheap bastard factor?

It's called living in the 2000s. We don't buy albums.

We do however pay 60 bucks a ticket to see bands with a 25 year career play 70 minutes.

So there is a balance. We get a half-assed show for double the price, and we take their album for free. In the end the band still wins.
can't argue with you there..that's why 50% was generous. There are a few dinosaurs out there that still buy albums. They're still worth the money live in the right venue though, at least to me.

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#124 Post by Hokahey » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:39 pm

Let's not start pretending albums sales has any reflection on album quality.

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Re: Estimated first week sales for The Great Escape Artist

#125 Post by creep » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:23 pm

well jane's fell off the chart in week 3 which means they didn't sell 8000 albums in the third week.

they did outsell lou reed and metalica. what a bad first week for them. that horrible florence and the machine that someone mentioned sold 100k in their first week doing much better than jane's.

http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/sales/salescht.cgi

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