Navarro: What makes him great?

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JOEinPHX
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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#51 Post by JOEinPHX » Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:55 am

Hokahey wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:38 am
Six7Six7 wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:38 am
Hokahey wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:34 am
Six7Six7 wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 3:31 pm
Hokahey wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 2:56 pm
lucio wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 2:17 pm
Early 90s alternative better than late 90s. Starting getting worse from 1996-7 on.

I think the Panic Channel was a way for them make a fast buck off the record label advance money and then not really care about what they put out. Perkins is also to blame for the bad music on Panic Channel.
Yes, Perkins is also responsible. However, they did care about what they were putting out. They were frustrated with Perry and wanted to be a mainstream rock band making lots of money. They felt like they had a better opportunity to do that with Steve Isaacs.
I think it's strange you would still quote Etty Farrell all these years later, Hoka. Especially after you admitted that she had been feeding you lies about the band. 🤷🏻‍♂️
Somewhat ironically, Etty never said anything like that. It was literally every single other person both in and surrounding the bands. :lol:

Multiple people said the band felt like they could be like Aerosmith. It was apparent that was said repeatedly.
Aerosmith?

And you think the logical path to being the next Aerosmith is to cast aside your Rolodex with the names of hundreds of known platinum-selling rockstars and instead ask your manager's former VJ boyfriend to jam in your garage?

You'll have to excuse me if their actions somehow don't match the picture you're painting.

It sounds more like you're describing Velvet Revolver. And at least with them their actions in auditioning professional singers actually match the desired outcome.
They were well aware it would be perceived as replacing Perry if they did that instead of being their own unique band with a non celeb front man.

In terms of perception and desired levels of success, it was painfully clear how accurate it was. Those guys thought they’d get someone that wouldn’t have any strong opinions like Perry and have a successful RAWK band that could sustain a lengthy commercial career. They wanted to be stars.
And as we all know, the perception of rockstars replacing other rockstars is always negative, and supergroups were definitely not the IN thing to do in the early 2000s

Jane's legit took Lollapalooza on the road in 2004 with A Perfect Circle, Queens of the Stone Age, and Audioslave and you're going to sit there and go "yeah replacing Perry would have been a bad idea in 2005"? Really? 🙄

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#52 Post by Hokahey » Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:01 pm

Six7Six7 wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:55 am
Hokahey wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:38 am
Six7Six7 wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:38 am
Hokahey wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:34 am
Six7Six7 wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 3:31 pm
Hokahey wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 2:56 pm


Yes, Perkins is also responsible. However, they did care about what they were putting out. They were frustrated with Perry and wanted to be a mainstream rock band making lots of money. They felt like they had a better opportunity to do that with Steve Isaacs.
I think it's strange you would still quote Etty Farrell all these years later, Hoka. Especially after you admitted that she had been feeding you lies about the band. 🤷🏻‍♂️
Somewhat ironically, Etty never said anything like that. It was literally every single other person both in and surrounding the bands. :lol:

Multiple people said the band felt like they could be like Aerosmith. It was apparent that was said repeatedly.
Aerosmith?

And you think the logical path to being the next Aerosmith is to cast aside your Rolodex with the names of hundreds of known platinum-selling rockstars and instead ask your manager's former VJ boyfriend to jam in your garage?

You'll have to excuse me if their actions somehow don't match the picture you're painting.

It sounds more like you're describing Velvet Revolver. And at least with them their actions in auditioning professional singers actually match the desired outcome.
They were well aware it would be perceived as replacing Perry if they did that instead of being their own unique band with a non celeb front man.

In terms of perception and desired levels of success, it was painfully clear how accurate it was. Those guys thought they’d get someone that wouldn’t have any strong opinions like Perry and have a successful RAWK band that could sustain a lengthy commercial career. They wanted to be stars.
And as we all know, the perception of rockstars replacing other rockstars is always negative, and supergroups were definitely not the IN thing to do in the early 2000s

Jane's legit took Lollapalooza on the road in 2004 with A Perfect Circle, Queens of the Stone Age, and Audioslave and you're going to sit there and go "yeah replacing Perry would have been a bad idea in 2005"? Really? 🙄
There’s a lot of poor logic here, but I don’t even care to pick it apart or argue further because this has nothing to do with me. I didn’t make these statements. I wasn’t one of the inner circle talking about this. It was obvious what the general feeling was within that camp. Get rid of Perry and become mainstream rock stars. You can deny it all you want but it’s what was being said. I was hearing this well before TPC. It is what it is.

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#53 Post by Mescal » Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:37 am

I listened to two Panic Channel songs yesterday.

It was even worse than I remembered.

How could they have thought to be successful with that?

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#54 Post by Hokahey » Sat Feb 18, 2023 6:33 am

Mescal wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:37 am
I listened to two Panic Channel songs yesterday.

It was even worse than I remembered.

How could they have thought to be successful with that?
I went back a couple of years to try and listen with fresh ears and an open mind. And yeah, it sucked.

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#55 Post by blackula » Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:53 pm

I didn’t remember Why Cry sounding like Taking Back Sunday or any of those shitty early aughts emo bands.

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#56 Post by Hokahey » Sat Feb 18, 2023 7:45 pm

blackula wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:53 pm
I didn’t remember Why Cry sounding like Taking Back Sunday or any of those shitty early aughts emo bands.
You just made me go. Listen to it again. It is unbelievable how bad it is. I can’t believe that any of them would have confidence in that song. And I can’t decipher Dave or Perkins playing in it. It just sounds like generic crap.

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#57 Post by VancouverRick » Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:14 pm

Hokahey wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2023 7:45 pm
blackula wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:53 pm
I didn’t remember Why Cry sounding like Taking Back Sunday or any of those shitty early aughts emo bands.
You just made me go. Listen to it again. It is unbelievable how bad it is. I can’t believe that any of them would have confidence in that song. And I can’t decipher Dave or Perkins playing in it. It just sounds like generic crap.
Third Eye Blind wrote some incredible pop/rock sons. The Spin Doctors wrote a few killer pop sons. Why Cry was an attempt to write a "hit" and it's a seaming pile of crap.

The DNA of Jane's Addiction is Perry and Eric. Perkins had his moments (Mountain Song, 3 Days), so did Dave. But with out Perry and Eric, Dave and Stephen are playing Zep covers in pubs.

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#58 Post by someguy » Sat Feb 18, 2023 9:46 pm

Man it’s like… his last two records over the last seventeen years have been panic channel and great escape (maybe NHC soon). Its really something else that he has potentially passed on the opportunity to write at the very least three songs with Eric, Perry, and Stephen

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nestos
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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#59 Post by nestos » Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:54 am

Hokahey wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2023 6:33 am
Mescal wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:37 am
I listened to two Panic Channel songs yesterday.

It was even worse than I remembered.

How could they have thought to be successful with that?
I went back a couple of years to try and listen with fresh ears and an open mind. And yeah, it sucked.
Definitely not a fresh ear problem

And If I remember well, the best song (so to speak) they had was not even on the album.

This is the only think I could imagine I might give a try again, but the whole album is soooo bad, there are no words

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#60 Post by Tyler Durden » Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:14 am

As far I’m concerned, there’s nothing “wrong” with the production or songwriting of that Panic Channel album. The issue is not the actual execution. The problem is what they were making was crud…but they were very good at it. It’s contrived late 90s “alternative” rock, in the vein of Our Lady Peace, Incubus, Filter, STP, etc. Totally insincere, by the numbers.

I know (at least some) people here will claim some or all of those bands are better…but TPC and all those bands belong in the same calculated pile of crap to me.

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#61 Post by ESY » Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:45 am

Yep. I’m quite proud of myself that I have never made through more than 30 secs of a Panic Chanel song. Nothing alternative, genuine or sincere, about something so contrived. And the fact it was born from the Jane’s camp? :jasper:

Juan%
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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#62 Post by Juan% » Sun Feb 19, 2023 11:23 am

ESY wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:45 am
Yep. I’m quite proud of myself that I have never made through more than 30 secs of a Panic Chanel song. Nothing alternative, genuine or sincere, about something so contrived. And the fact it was born from the Jane’s camp? :jasper:
This. Much like those Strays demos, which are no different, other than being longer… Don’t give an f about if the demos are better, or whatever…. Having not heard them, I guarantee you, they are not. I have heard a whole song, that video of the band playing, and the girl painting?

This was all I need to know to dismiss them really…

https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/proje ... c33a98.jpg

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#63 Post by Hokahey » Sun Feb 19, 2023 11:51 am

Image


Ok Chris, look sexy. Stephen, hold the candle. Goood goooood

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#64 Post by Noonesshocking » Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:02 pm

Hokahey wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 11:51 am
Image


Ok Chris, look sexy. Stephen, hold the candle. Goood goooood
What shame that their record label dictated so much of their aesthetic and mixing decisions, and that the guys had no power whatsoever to push back. Not even the energy emanating from panic circles could help them.

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#65 Post by Tyler Durden » Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:31 pm

Noonesshocking wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:02 pm


What shame that their record label dictated so much of their aesthetic and mixing decisions, and that the guys had no power whatsoever to push back. Not even the energy emanating from panic circles could help them.
I hold the band accountable, not the label. Dave and Perk were alt rock royalty by this point…they were likely the ones calling the shots. After all, they picked the super generic singer and the cup of plain yogurt who plays bass.

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#66 Post by Noonesshocking » Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:38 pm

Tyler Durden wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:31 pm
Noonesshocking wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:02 pm


What shame that their record label dictated so much of their aesthetic and mixing decisions, and that the guys had no power whatsoever to push back. Not even the energy emanating from panic circles could help them.
I hold the band accountable, not the label. Dave and Perk were alt rock royalty by this point…they were likely the ones calling the shots. After all, they picked the super generic singer and the cup of plain yogurt who plays bass.

Image

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#67 Post by Tyler Durden » Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:50 pm

Noonesshocking wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:38 pm


Image
My bad. I have a seven month old at home. Tired as fuck.

Anyway, I’ve never understood why Perkins has been wasted on recordings for decades now. He was still a madman on the first Porno album. By the time Strays rolled out, he was pretty neutered. Nothing striking. By TGEA, he may as well have been a laptop or something…nothing remotely interesting going on with the drums and you’ve got one of the best drummers of all time allegedly playing on the album. Total waste.

I’ll never understand why the band chose Bob Ezrin to produce Strays. He obviously never understood the band or took the time to. Why would the band go with a guy who publicly lambasted the Ritual album?! Makes zero sense.

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#68 Post by Mescal » Sun Feb 19, 2023 2:24 pm

Are there any recordings of their time in Dizastre?

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#69 Post by Hokahey » Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:11 pm

Tyler Durden wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:50 pm
Noonesshocking wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:38 pm


Image
My bad. I have a seven month old at home. Tired as fuck.

Anyway, I’ve never understood why Perkins has been wasted on recordings for decades now. He was still a madman on the first Porno album. By the time Strays rolled out, he was pretty neutered. Nothing striking. By TGEA, he may as well have been a laptop or something…nothing remotely interesting going on with the drums and you’ve got one of the best drummers of all time allegedly playing on the album. Total waste.

I’ll never understand why the band chose Bob Ezrin to produce Strays. He obviously never understood the band or took the time to. Why would the band go with a guy who publicly lambasted the Ritual album?! Makes zero sense.
As I recall, Perry wanted Ezrin as a gift to Dave, who was a big fan.

And he didn’t speak poorly of Ritual until he was already hired.

It was pretty clear the whole band agreed with him that it was time to “stop being a great art rock band and just be a great rock band.”

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#70 Post by Stickyfingers » Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:23 pm

Hokahey wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:11 pm

As I recall, Perry wanted Ezrin as a gift to Dave, who was a big fan.

And he didn’t speak poorly of Ritual until he was already hired.

It was pretty clear the whole band agreed with him that it was time to “stop being a great art rock band and just be a great rock band.”

Image


it was around the time Perry "democratized" Janes giving more power to the other members especially Dave.
I knew it was a bad move but it was hard to speak pro Perry on the forums, he was seen a dictatorial dickhead and the change as the triumph of justice.

Then I remember that time they started playing BCS while Perry was still ranting to the audience. Perry refused to sing but the band played the entire piece to the end. At the end Perry asked "Can you wait for me? They were Dave, Chris, Steve + the singer.


i'm glad Janes leadership is back to Perry and Eric.

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#71 Post by Noonesshocking » Sun Feb 19, 2023 7:26 pm

Stickyfingers wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:23 pm
Hokahey wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:11 pm

As I recall, Perry wanted Ezrin as a gift to Dave, who was a big fan.

And he didn’t speak poorly of Ritual until he was already hired.

It was pretty clear the whole band agreed with him that it was time to “stop being a great art rock band and just be a great rock band.”

Image


it was around the time Perry "democratized" Janes giving more power to the other members especially Dave.
I knew it was a bad move but it was hard to speak pro Perry on the forums, he was seen a dictatorial dickhead and the change as the triumph of justice.

Then I remember that time they started playing BCS while Perry was still ranting to the audience. Perry refused to sing but the band played the entire piece to the end. At the end Perry asked "Can you wait for me? They were Dave, Chris, Steve + the singer.


i'm glad Janes leadership is back to Perry and Eric.
This is a great point. Dave was trying to draw so much attention to himself onstage during this time as well - to the point where it was really distracting. It's like he was trying to be a second frontman or something. I think there's some footage of youtube where he jumps into the crowd and its pretty emabarassing.

Say what you will about 2008-2010, but to his credit he rectified that. The onstage chemistry balance has been calibrated properly ever since.

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#72 Post by Hokahey » Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:03 pm

Stickyfingers wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:23 pm
Hokahey wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:11 pm

As I recall, Perry wanted Ezrin as a gift to Dave, who was a big fan.

And he didn’t speak poorly of Ritual until he was already hired.

It was pretty clear the whole band agreed with him that it was time to “stop being a great art rock band and just be a great rock band.”

Image


it was around the time Perry "democratized" Janes giving more power to the other members especially Dave.
I knew it was a bad move but it was hard to speak pro Perry on the forums, he was seen a dictatorial dickhead and the change as the triumph of justice.

Then I remember that time they started playing BCS while Perry was still ranting to the audience. Perry refused to sing but the band played the entire piece to the end. At the end Perry asked "Can you wait for me? They were Dave, Chris, Steve + the singer.


i'm glad Janes leadership is back to Perry and Eric.
I remember being told that Dave insisted on being the tallest person on the cover and is standing on something in that picture. They are all itty bitty if you’ve never stood next to them.

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#73 Post by someguy » Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:56 pm

Hokahey wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:03 pm
Stickyfingers wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:23 pm
Hokahey wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:11 pm

As I recall, Perry wanted Ezrin as a gift to Dave, who was a big fan.

And he didn’t speak poorly of Ritual until he was already hired.

It was pretty clear the whole band agreed with him that it was time to “stop being a great art rock band and just be a great rock band.”

Image


it was around the time Perry "democratized" Janes giving more power to the other members especially Dave.
I knew it was a bad move but it was hard to speak pro Perry on the forums, he was seen a dictatorial dickhead and the change as the triumph of justice.

Then I remember that time they started playing BCS while Perry was still ranting to the audience. Perry refused to sing but the band played the entire piece to the end. At the end Perry asked "Can you wait for me? They were Dave, Chris, Steve + the singer.


i'm glad Janes leadership is back to Perry and Eric.
I remember being told that Dave insisted on being the tallest person on the cover and is standing on something in that picture. They are all itty bitty if you’ve never stood next to them.
Imagine thinking being the tallest person on an album cover (which sucks) is important

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#74 Post by parklife03 » Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:43 pm

I actually like some songs from The Panic Channel album

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Re: Navarro: What makes him great?

#75 Post by clickie » Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:47 pm

I just listened to Why Cry for the first time. My introduction to Panic Channel. It's definitely not music aimed for anyone over the age of 17 at the most.

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