ticketmaster

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Pandemonium
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Re: ticketmaster

#26 Post by Pandemonium » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:37 am

Six7Six7 wrote:At some point, they are going to start buying up the record labels too.

They they will pick who gets signed, play them on their radio stations, book their tours, and host the gig in their venues.

The music industry will consist of 200 bands/artists and that's it.
Live Nation already has their own record label called Live Nation Artists. I believe Madonna and Jay Z are two major artists already signed. U2 and Nickleback have limited recording deals (basically the so-called 360-type deal) with LNA.

You are aware of the Live Nation/Clear Channel media/radio connection as well as the fact LN owns the House Of Blues club chain, right?

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Re: ticketmaster

#27 Post by JOEinPHX » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:43 am

Yeah i knew about that stuff. I just meant they would purchase Capitol, Epic, etc...

Historic labels where all the big artists tend to start their careers.

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Re: ticketmaster

#28 Post by Pandemonium » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:32 am

Six7Six7 wrote:Yeah i knew about that stuff. I just meant they would purchase Capitol, Epic, etc...

Historic labels where all the big artists tend to start their careers.
Most of the traditional big labels through the 90's like Capitol, Epic, RCA, etc have been absorbed in part or completely by either Sony or Warner Bros. The remaining independent labels of any significance like Cooking Vinyl and Epitaph who are more or less specialty labels are struggling in the current economic climate and ripe for takeovers.

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Re: ticketmaster

#29 Post by Juana » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:21 pm

I know UMG has bought up a lot of stuff too and they're linked to Live Nation as well. In the end it will eventually eat its self, but until then all we can do is bitch about it. Because you have to keep the monster going.

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Re: ticketmaster

#30 Post by Romeo » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:56 pm

but it's almost like collusion. Right? :noclue:

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Re: ticketmaster

#31 Post by MYXYLPLYX » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:15 pm

Okay, everyone calm down...read this and get back to me:

http://www.amazon.com/Ticket-Masters-Co ... 1550229494


http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/industry ... 8932.story

Author Dean Budnick Talks 'Ticket Masters: The Rise of the Concert Industry'
May 18, 2011
By Shirley Halperin, The Hollywood Reporter

Author Dean Budnick Talks 'Ticket Masters: The Rise of the Concert Industry'

The blurb on the back cover pretty much says it all: "Reading this book won't make you any happier about spending four hundred bucks to go to a rock show but you'll understand how it happened and who's to blame."

Indeed, the forthcoming Ticket Masters (out June 1), written by Dean Budnick and Josh Baron, longtime regulars of the jam band scene and both editors at Relix Magazine, traces the storied past of concert ticketing, from its nascent years as a money-losing business to the days of Bill Graham, Barry Diller, Paul Allen, Michael Cohl and Irving Azoff. Pivotal stops along this twisted road include Pearl Jam's ill-fated fight with Ticketmaster in the mid-90s as well as String Cheese Incident's quiet victory a decade later, the Rolling Stones' bank-breaking jump to the top of the ticket price heap and the emergence of StubHub and evolution of modern scalping.

A project that's been in the works for six years, the result is a riveting and oftentimes frustrating ride through rock and roll history. Co-author Budnick gives THR a preview.

Q: What motivated the two of you to write this book?

Dean Budnick: It's a classic example of two people writing the book they wanted to read. Starting in 2002, Josh and I spent time talking at length about concert ticketing and larger, related developments in the live music industry. We did this both in the context of our jobs at Relix magazine and also because the two of us were just plain fascinated by the topic. Some of our conversations were speculative, while others emerged from our experiences as ticketholders, event producers and journalists contemplating the inner workings of the industry.

A few years before that, when I was a history grad student researching the sales of theatre and movie tickets for my doctoral dissertation, I had spent some time exploring accounts of ticket scalping on Charles Dickens's final U.S. lecture tour and at one point I had contemplated writing a social and cultural history of the subject. Josh and I also are big fans of Fred Goodman's Mansion on The Hill and we long wondered why nobody had taken that story of the original concert promoters of the 1960s and early 1970s, and then carried it forward to the present. We kept waiting for a book that would draw all of these elements together and eventually we decided that if we really wanted to read it, we'd have to write it ourselves.

Q: What's the biggest misconception about tickets and how they're sold?

Budnick: I think there have been several. Going back a few decades, there was an erroneous sense that ticketing companies were providing a public service rather than striving to maximize their profits, which is why consumers often were so outraged when the service fees would vary based on the price of the ticket. People would question why the fees would be higher on more expensive tickets despite the fact that the service provided seemed to be the same as that for the cheaper ones. Of course the reason for this, is that the ticketing companies believed there was price elasticity and saw a revenue opportunity. Then again, the belief that ticketing should be viewed as something akin to a public utility also was held by many Ticketron exectives, which in part led to that company's demise at the hands of Ticketmaster.

Beyond that, I think of a variety of misconceptions endure today. On the core level, I don't think the public is fully aware of all the elements that make-up a ticket price, which provides revenue streams for the artist, the promoter, the venue and the ticketing provider.

Coming at it from another perspective, I think people often underestimate how challenging it is to deliver a stable, secure platform for online ticketing. I think the fact that the new Live Nation ticketing system crashed in January 2009 under the weight of computerized bots during a Phish on-sale is a good example of that.

Finally, in terms of the secondary market I don't think that most people appreciate the extent to which the acts themselves are often complicit in terms of profiting from the resale of particular tickets allocated for this purpose. Also, on this general topic, although StubHub has been able to pitch itself as a fan-to-fan ticket exchange, populated by moms and pops selling their extra seats to particular events, the truth is that the company was able to build a robust marketplace by creating a bulk-upload program that caters to speculators and professional ticket brokers.

Q: Is there an unsung hero of the ticketing story?

Budnick: From a historical standpoint, I would point to Dorothy McLaughlin. She was a former junior high math teacher living in Arizona during the early 1970s, who put her kids to bed at night then occupied herself by writing a ticketing program via a time-share computer in her living room. Her Select-A-Seat software, which she drafted in the simplest of programming languages, BASIC, was revolutionary in its ability to offer potential ticket buyers the ability to look at their seat locations before making a purchase and also handled season ticketing long before Ticketron and its team of programmers was able to do the same.

From a consumer perspective I would point to those groups who have made an effort to keep ticket prices low and strive to ensure that their biggest fans would have a fair opportunity to secure good seats at reasonable prices, working with promoters and ticketing companies to accomplish just that. Bands like Fugazi, Grateful Dead, Phish, Nine Inch Nails and LCD Soundsystem come to mind.


In terms of unsung heroes, I also would point to a musical act whose story really hasn't been told until now, the String Cheese Incident. We devote a chapter to the group's successful challenge to Ticketmaster after the company attempted to quash the band's ability to sell its own seats, in a chapter we title "A Quiet Victory" because the details of the settlement have not been made public until now.

Q: How did the Grateful Dead revolutionize the business of concert tickets?

Budnick: They accomplished this a variety of ways even though they'd be the first to explain that they did not set out to pioneer any ticketing initiatives. Instead they were idiosyncratic, following their own muse and attempting to do right by their fans. It's similar to the way people have subsequently hailed the Dead's decision to allow fans to tape and trade live performances as a clever, innovative social networking effort, when the reality is that the practice was already in motion and group didn't want to the police the situation because that would have bummed them out.

Still, the Grateful Dead deserves tremendous credit as the first group to take on the task of event ticketing and handle it all in-house, through the creation of the Grateful Dead Ticketing Service. The GDTS demonstrated how a "bunch of wooly freaks," as Bob Weir described the staff, could effectively connect with fans and offer tickets with a modest service fee, while fostering a direct relationship with the group's supporters. In the process, the organization also challenged the notion that ticketing companies could have absolute control over inventory, by securing up to fifty percent of the seats to their performances, in direct contravention of the venues' contractual agreements with Ticketmaster. This culminated in a heated sit-down at San Francisco's Hyatt Regency which we describe in the book, where the band prevailed, securing what it characterized as the "Fifty Percent Solution." Still, the group never set out to innovate or alter the business model industry-wide, it just wanted to ensure that fans had the best possible experience, which is how it should be.

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Re: ticketmaster

#32 Post by Romeo » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:16 pm

actually you reinforced my original point:
Finally, in terms of the secondary market I don't think that most people appreciate the extent to which the acts themselves are often complicit in terms of profiting from the resale of particular tickets allocated for this purpose. Also, on this general topic, although StubHub has been able to pitch itself as a fan-to-fan ticket exchange, populated by moms and pops selling their extra seats to particular events, the truth is that the company was able to build a robust marketplace by creating a bulk-upload program that caters to speculators and professional ticket brokers.
I was misinformed earlier, stub hub is not owned by ticketmaster. Ticketmaster owns ticketsnow.com
Same theory, run by scaplers. I mean brokers. And as of Saturday ticketsnow had 95 Janes NYC tickets available. So majority of the tickets went to brokers...

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Re: ticketmaster

#33 Post by kv » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:23 pm

wahhhhhhhhhh ticketmaster fucking sucks year 30+ then before that wahhhhh ticketron sucks for 20+

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Re: ticketmaster

#34 Post by Hokahey » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:34 pm

I love Stubhub for sporting events. I've been getting below face value tickets for Cards and Rams games on there for years.

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Re: ticketmaster

#35 Post by kv » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:06 pm

ya well it's because they are cards and rams tickets

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Re: ticketmaster

#36 Post by MYXYLPLYX » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:09 pm

Romeo wrote:actually you reinforced my original point:
Finally, in terms of the secondary market I don't think that most people appreciate the extent to which the acts themselves are often complicit in terms of profiting from the resale of particular tickets allocated for this purpose. Also, on this general topic, although StubHub has been able to pitch itself as a fan-to-fan ticket exchange, populated by moms and pops selling their extra seats to particular events, the truth is that the company was able to build a robust marketplace by creating a bulk-upload program that caters to speculators and professional ticket brokers.
I was misinformed earlier, stub hub is not owned by ticketmaster. Ticketmaster owns ticketsnow.com
Same theory, run by scaplers. I mean brokers. And as of Saturday ticketsnow had 95 Janes NYC tickets available. So majority of the tickets went to brokers...
Um, you got the right paragraph, but missed the leading point:
Finally, in terms of the secondary market I don't think that most people appreciate the extent to which the acts themselves are often complicit in terms of profiting from the resale of particular tickets allocated for this purpose.
The biggest revelation of this book is how much blame the artist bears for the current system (not a revelation to me or people I work with, granted). The general public is often content to shake their fists of impotent rage at Livenation/Ticketmaster, and hey let's face it, they are big fat targets. But don't let the slimy, greedy artists slither by unnoticed. Particularly in this day and age when only a tiny fraction of artists can expect to make any kind of money from sales of their actual music, touring income has become the be all end all cash cow to be raped repeatedly and viciously.

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Re: ticketmaster

#37 Post by Hokahey » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:42 am

kv wrote:ya well it's because they are cards and rams tickets

Cards have some of the best attendance in baseball pal. Widely considered the best baseball town in America. Not sure what you're saying. Also, these are to sold out Rams games.

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Re: ticketmaster

#38 Post by Pandemonium » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:00 pm

MYXYLPLYX wrote:The biggest revelation of this book is how much blame the artist bears for the current system (not a revelation to me or people I work with, granted). The general public is often content to shake their fists of impotent rage at Livenation/Ticketmaster, and hey let's face it, they are big fat targets. But don't let the slimy, greedy artists slither by unnoticed. Particularly in this day and age when only a tiny fraction of artists can expect to make any kind of money from sales of their actual music, touring income has become the be all end all cash cow to be raped repeatedly and viciously.
One of the biggest scams in ticket reselling is withholding a huge percentage of prime tickets for resale through intermediaries as well as holding for "guests" like VIPs. And of course there's the so-called "5 Star" or Deluxe ticket packages that basically jack the price of a prime ticket to anywhere from $300 - $1500 a seat which is padded with mostly garbage swag and mediocre fringe benefits like access to a hospitality room to justify the rediculous pricing. Most of this sort of thing is done through those high up in the band's management including the managers themselves and the bands themselves are oblivious to what's going on. Acts represented by Irving Azoff including Van Halen and The Eagles are notorious for these practices.

But, TM still garners the lion's share of blame. Just in In 2009 when Springsteen tickets went on sale for a New Jersey stadium show, online TM applicants were redirected to TM's reseller site TicketsNow the minute the show went on sale which just happened to have scores of tickets on sale at drastically inflated prices. This was during the Live Nation/TM merger/buyout and couldn't of happened at a worse time for the two companies. Springsteen publicly slammed TM and an investigation led to TM eventually shutting down TicketsNow.

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Re: ticketmaster

#39 Post by JOEinPHX » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:34 pm

Pandemonium wrote:
One of the biggest scams in ticket reselling is withholding a huge percentage of prime tickets for resale through intermediaries as well as holding for "guests" like VIPs. And of course there's the so-called "5 Star" or Deluxe ticket packages that basically jack the price of a prime ticket to anywhere from $300 - $1500 a seat which is padded with mostly garbage swag and mediocre fringe benefits like access to a hospitality room to justify the rediculous pricing. Most of this sort of thing is done through those high up in the band's management including the managers themselves and the bands themselves are oblivious to what's going on. Acts represented by Irving Azoff including Van Halen and The Eagles are notorious for these practices.
Yeah, 50 dollar ticket + Tshirt + worthless "collector's item backstage pass" + $0.99 poster + meet and greet (that can be had outside at the bus for free) = $1000

People are ridiculous for buying them, and it's disgusting that such things even exist.

Now some smaller bands do VIP packages, for instance i think Filter lets you have lunch with them before the show for an extra 20 bucks. Maynard does wine tastings for his fans for an extra 30 bucks. Stuff like that, where it's more than just a handshake, and doesn't cost 900 extra dollars, is cool.

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Re: ticketmaster

#40 Post by Tyler Durden » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:52 pm

Six7Six7 wrote:Yeah, 50 dollar ticket + Tshirt + worthless "collector's item backstage pass" + $0.99 poster + meet and greet (that can be had outside at the bus for free) = $1000
A meet and greet is included if you're lucky. You forgot "dinner"; basically pickings from a deli platter. :hehe:

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Re: ticketmaster

#41 Post by Larry B. » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:22 pm

Some VIP tickets for Paul McCartney here had a price tag between USD$1,200 and US$3,000. The benefits? Parking, cocktail, attending the soundcheck and sitting between the 1st and the 20th row.

I payed USD$60 for my ticket.

Who has ever heard of a USD$1,000 parking spot for 8 hours?
Last edited by Larry B. on Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ticketmaster

#42 Post by JOEinPHX » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:23 pm

Tyler Durden wrote:
Six7Six7 wrote:Yeah, 50 dollar ticket + Tshirt + worthless "collector's item backstage pass" + $0.99 poster + meet and greet (that can be had outside at the bus for free) = $1000
A meet and greet is included if you're lucky. You forgot "dinner"; basically pickings from a deli platter. :hehe:

Yeah. "Hey make yourself a sandwich from the band's leftovers"

$1 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tyler Durden

Re: ticketmaster

#43 Post by Tyler Durden » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:56 pm

Six7Six7 wrote:
Tyler Durden wrote:
Six7Six7 wrote:Yeah, 50 dollar ticket + Tshirt + worthless "collector's item backstage pass" + $0.99 poster + meet and greet (that can be had outside at the bus for free) = $1000
A meet and greet is included if you're lucky. You forgot "dinner"; basically pickings from a deli platter. :hehe:

Yeah. "Hey make yourself a sandwich from the band's leftovers"

$1 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sad but true. When people hear the word "dinner", visions of them sitting in a 5 star restaurant with the band laughing and cheersing glasses of champagne are conjured up in the minds of rabid fans.

In reality, "dinner" is eating a ham and cheese sandwich and drinking a can of Coke at a folding table while some psycho fanboy talks your ear off about how he almost caught Duff's pick when Jane's played The Bardot.

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Re: ticketmaster

#44 Post by MYXYLPLYX » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:28 pm

Six7Six7 wrote:
Tyler Durden wrote:
Six7Six7 wrote:Yeah, 50 dollar ticket + Tshirt + worthless "collector's item backstage pass" + $0.99 poster + meet and greet (that can be had outside at the bus for free) = $1000
A meet and greet is included if you're lucky. You forgot "dinner"; basically pickings from a deli platter. :hehe:

Yeah. "Hey make yourself a sandwich from the band's leftovers"

$1 :lol: :lol: :lol:
:essence:

You are unlikely to get anywhere near the band's spread ...that's the crew spread. It pisses me off when all the posers finish off the food and drinks and I'm on my 15th hour of work and left with nothing.

I pack a Cliff bar and snag a couple sodas before the show ends so I don't have to worry about the freeloaders ... :waits:

Tyler Durden

Re: ticketmaster

#45 Post by Tyler Durden » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:50 pm

MYXYLPLYX wrote:
Six7Six7 wrote:
Tyler Durden wrote:
Six7Six7 wrote:Yeah, 50 dollar ticket + Tshirt + worthless "collector's item backstage pass" + $0.99 poster + meet and greet (that can be had outside at the bus for free) = $1000
A meet and greet is included if you're lucky. You forgot "dinner"; basically pickings from a deli platter. :hehe:

Yeah. "Hey make yourself a sandwich from the band's leftovers"

$1 :lol: :lol: :lol:
:essence:

You are unlikely to get anywhere near the band's spread ...that's the crew spread. It pisses me off when all the posers finish off the food and drinks and I'm on my 15th hour of work and left with nothing.

I pack a Cliff bar and snag a couple sodas before the show ends so I don't have to worry about the freeloaders ... :waits:
I totally hear what you are saying...but anyone who pays $1000 for one of these packages is NOT a freeloader. An idiot, maybe...but not a freeloader. :hehe:

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Re: ticketmaster

#46 Post by MYXYLPLYX » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:47 pm

Tyler Durden wrote:
MYXYLPLYX wrote:
Six7Six7 wrote:
Tyler Durden wrote:
Six7Six7 wrote:Yeah, 50 dollar ticket + Tshirt + worthless "collector's item backstage pass" + $0.99 poster + meet and greet (that can be had outside at the bus for free) = $1000
A meet and greet is included if you're lucky. You forgot "dinner"; basically pickings from a deli platter. :hehe:

Yeah. "Hey make yourself a sandwich from the band's leftovers"

$1 :lol: :lol: :lol:
:essence:

You are unlikely to get anywhere near the band's spread ...that's the crew spread. It pisses me off when all the posers finish off the food and drinks and I'm on my 15th hour of work and left with nothing.

I pack a Cliff bar and snag a couple sodas before the show ends so I don't have to worry about the freeloaders ... :waits:
I totally hear what you are saying...but anyone who pays $1000 for one of these packages is NOT a freeloader. An idiot, maybe...but not a freeloader. :hehe:
Well, my rant was aimed at anyone backstage and not working the show. And yeah, I know I'm being somewhat irrationally grumpy, but it can get really fucking aggravating when you spend so much time at work navigating your way through clumps of douchebags whooping it up as ostentatiously as possible while you are simply trying to do your job.

:balls:

Tyler Durden

Re: ticketmaster

#47 Post by Tyler Durden » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:55 pm

MYXYLPLYX wrote:
Tyler Durden wrote:
MYXYLPLYX wrote:
Six7Six7 wrote:
Tyler Durden wrote:
Six7Six7 wrote:Yeah, 50 dollar ticket + Tshirt + worthless "collector's item backstage pass" + $0.99 poster + meet and greet (that can be had outside at the bus for free) = $1000
A meet and greet is included if you're lucky. You forgot "dinner"; basically pickings from a deli platter. :hehe:

Yeah. "Hey make yourself a sandwich from the band's leftovers"

$1 :lol: :lol: :lol:
:essence:

You are unlikely to get anywhere near the band's spread ...that's the crew spread. It pisses me off when all the posers finish off the food and drinks and I'm on my 15th hour of work and left with nothing.

I pack a Cliff bar and snag a couple sodas before the show ends so I don't have to worry about the freeloaders ... :waits:
I totally hear what you are saying...but anyone who pays $1000 for one of these packages is NOT a freeloader. An idiot, maybe...but not a freeloader. :hehe:
Well, my rant was aimed at anyone backstage and not working the show. And yeah, I know I'm being somewhat irrationally grumpy, but it can get really fucking aggravating when you spend so much time at work navigating your way through clumps of douchebags whooping it up as ostentatiously as possible while you are simply trying to do your job.

:balls:
No doubt. Especially considering there's probably people who don't even give a shit about the band and just want a meal ticket, etc because they won some contest...OR it's complete psycho fans (read: "Mike") that are so obsessed with the band, it's creepy. :lol:

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Re: ticketmaster

#48 Post by Pandemonium » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:14 pm

Most of those "meet n' great" packages that include some sort of catered food or dinner are set up usually in a hospitality room that is completely separate from anything to do with the band or crew's dinner spread which is often in one of the large rooms near the loading dock area (in bigger venues).

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Re: ticketmaster

#49 Post by Romeo » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:30 pm

I just checked stub hub & there are 211 tickets available for the 10/17 show and 220 tickets available for the 10/18 show starting at $78.00 each :lol:
I hope those "brokers" get stuck with them

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Re: ticketmaster

#50 Post by JOEinPHX » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:25 pm

Romeo wrote:I just checked stub hub & there are 211 tickets available for the 10/17 show and 220 tickets available for the 10/18 show starting at $78.00 each :lol:
I hope those "brokers" get stuck with them
they will.

But they will also buy 800 jonas tickets, and sell 600 of them for 3 times the price.

everything balances out. much more in the favor of the ticket guys. You can say "haha" on one show, but they will laugh at you on the other 200.

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