Perry is serious about dance music

[clickie]

I dont even think theres 1 band on that entire list who i'd consider recent and earning a living off making commercial.

[CaseyContrarian]

you don't think bands make big money for having a song in a commercial or movie???

we have gone over this a thousand times here but personally i have no problem with it. when a rock star is pimping a product on twitter or talks about it on stage (dobel) that is going too far.

perry got a free toothbrush for this one.

Sonicare probably bought Perry his new teeth.

Any band that hawks garbage with their tunes officially SUCKS as of that moment forward. End of discussion. Just sell CD's Records or Downloads and stop expecting that Alanis Morrisette, Gwen Stefani, Lady Gaga, Justin Beiber money ... it ain't gonna happen in that gas station attendant clothing wearing country grunge band with violins and only a kick drum .. people will support music if it is good or if it is over hyped .. good bands never need to be over hyped.

Who paid for his new nose?

[trevor ayer]

ok but if ur the person torrenting your favorite local band than you are the reason your choices are only lady gaga and kanye west .. if you want bands who play good music to stick around go out and buy their stuff .. torrent the crap being pushed by the majors but pay for the indie .. listen to college radio .. share stuff with your friends but tell them to buy their own fresh copy if they like it .. nobody cares if you torrent the new janes addiction or stp or pearl jam records cuz they all have enough money for the rest of their lives ... and none of them make good music worth paying for anyway ..

its like .. don't steal from a farmers market .. steal from that huge chain store like hannafords that only sells you poison laced produce anyway and plastic carcinogenic junk .. steal the new perry etty .. buy the 180g NS vinyl re issue .. create the future business model instead of supporting the crap model that only pays the crappy musicians (if u call pushing a button on a computer a musician) and leaves no room for good music on the radio or in those magazines that only print what the Record Companies pay them to print.

[CaseyContrarian]

Hi five to Trevor.

[Larry B.]

The choice with which I'm morally and ethically comfortable:

- Download (album or discography)
- If you like it a lot, pay for the album. If you downloaded a discography, just purchase at least one album.
- Since you like it a lot, share it.
- When they're playing a show near you, pay for your ticket and go. If you can't go, purchase a couple of tickets for some friends.

[Pandemonium]

I'm prehistoric. I still buy physical product - cds, dvds, blu-rays. Granted, at least as far as cds, I probably buy about 15 - 25 cds and maybe a couple box sets per year now, often used at a great discount. The only stuff I download (and pay for) is music that doesn't have a physical release like iTunes exclusives, etc. The only stuff I download via torrents is bootleg stuff, almost 95% live shows. Bad enough artists got ripped off from record companies, as a listener I don't need to contribute to the problem and never have. Sure, once in a while I get a cd or movie usually as a blind buy that I wind up not liking, but I can resell it on eBay or take it to a place like Amoeba Records for cash or credit and maybe lose a couple bucks per disc but big deal.

[SR]

^this. And the sentiment shouldn't be predjudiced by age.

[trevor ayer]

i used to join those music clubs and get 19 cds for the price of maybe 60 bucks .. sign myself up again with a different name get 5 more for s+h (maybe 2.50ea) and do it all over again .. it averaged out to about 3 bucks per NEW cd .. then i would sell the cds to the used music store for 4 bucks each .. actually made money .. i never got anything that good, or anything that seemed like they needed the money .. like i always bought my fugazi or my replacements records strait from the guy behind the counter at my local record store .. but the classic rock, or if some new corporate rock band caught my ear .. it was bmg music club all the way .. i got no problem upgrading anything i have already paid for once or twice .. i think i may have bought 1984 and 5150 about 4 times each .. everytime i would get rid of them out of shame, but then i would want to hear them again cuz i am a sucker for that cheese rock every once in a while .. so to download a lossless version after years of tapes or scratchy records .. i don't think i am taking any more booze out of eddies gullet .. but yeah .. someone local or indie i will pay extra just to keep em going .. i'll throw a 10 in a local buskers jar but rip an entire discog of someone who's clearly well paid by now

[Hokahey]

I'm prehistoric. I still buy physical product - cds, dvds, blu-rays. Granted, at least as far as cds, I probably buy about 15 - 25 cds and maybe a couple box sets per year now, often used at a great discount. The only stuff I download (and pay for) is music that doesn't have a physical release like iTunes exclusives, etc. The only stuff I download via torrents is bootleg stuff, almost 95% live shows. Bad enough artists got ripped off from record companies, as a listener I don't need to contribute to the problem and never have. Sure, once in a while I get a cd or movie usually as a blind buy that I wind up not liking, but I can resell it on eBay or take it to a place like Amoeba Records for cash or credit and maybe lose a couple bucks per disc but big deal.

Commendable, but I mostly download albums I would never pay money for, and otherwise never listen to. I suppose the next step is buy what I find out I like, but it's tough to draw the line between what I''d pay for and what I wouldn't. Generally if it's a smaller band I want to support and I've downloaded an album I love I try to find it on vinyl and buy it that way.

[Pandemonium]

Commendable, but I mostly download albums I would never pay money for, and otherwise never listen to. I suppose the next step is buy what I find out I like, but it's tough to draw the line between what I''d pay for and what I wouldn't. Generally if it's a smaller band I want to support and I've downloaded an album I love I try to find it on vinyl and buy it that way.

I buy a few vinyl records a year, mostly deluxe reissues of favorite albums or the occasional new album that I hear sounds better than the cd/digital release (Metallica's "Death Magnetic" album for example). I probably use my turntable 1 day a month, lol.

But overall, I haven't fallen back into the "vinyl rebirth" thing over the last decade especially since I still have a few hundred original vinyl records from my pre-cd days - albums that have never been released on cd or the vinyl is unique (track listing, mix, etc), rare (Guns n' Roses 1st EP, Motley Crue debut on Leathur Records, Quiet Riot Rhoads era Japanese albums, etc) or sonically better than any cd release or old school bootleg records. I also have a lot of basically worthless records as well that I should just toss. To be fair, at it's peak in the mid 90's, my vinyl collection took up a full 5 shelves of a 5' x 8' ft tall book case, now they only take up the bottom two shelves.

[sinep]

I buy milk and eggs on a weekly basis.

usually some juices too. Deli meats, breads.

Fruits and vegitables.

Beer... wine...

But never music.

[kv]

ditto

minus the wine...insert some weed

[CaseyContrarian]

I buy milk and eggs on a weekly basis.

usually some juices too. Deli meats, breads.

Fruits and vegitables.

Beer... wine...

But never music.

You are aware that people make music, right? And that the most of them aren't rich?

[Essence_Smith]

I am guilty of downloading, though I would have to say 75% of what I steal is stuff I purchased years ago and am too lazy to convert the hard way...I DO purchase indie stuff like my friends in Hypnotic Brass since I personally know how much they depend on every penny they get to feed their families, etc...the last new release I downloaded was the latest Eminem cd the other day, but usually its discogs of bands I have already spent money on...I will also pay for the random James Brown single on Amazon, etc...

[CaseyContrarian]

I mean the other question is, do you have a Netflix streaming subscription? Why not a streaming music subscription? Even though there's virtually no meaningful revenue for the fat middle of artists who aren't superstars, these platforms are a licensed source of practically all of the world's recorded music. And that's maybe better than nothing?

I'm not sure you know how expensive it is to be on the road, how much competition there is and how the live ecosystem supports a relatively narrow set of genres. You may also not be aware that statistically, the amount of money bands make on merch as a percentage of revenue is quite low. And that, while associated costs of recording and distribution have fallen, there are still costs. Or that the records we all love included a considerable backline of specialized talent, like engineers and producers, which is perhaps why we like them better than a lot of the new mass-market music we encounter.

This isn't meant to be scoldy--I'm simply suggesting that our aggregate behaviors in the marketplace do impact the marketplace in any number of ways. And maybe we'd do well as a culture to think about the creator (or "worker," in fair trade terms) whose expression (or labor) powers the whole shebang.

If you like a piece of recorded music, endeavor to buy it directly from the artist.

[wally]

no, my point was are there really that many bands doing it where u can say thats how bands earn a living now days. every commercial doesn't have a rock track playing behind it.

i didn't say thats how they make a living. you did. I said its how they make money. those are not the same.

[SR]

I mean the other question is, do you have a Netflix streaming subscription? Why not a streaming music subscription? Even though there's virtually no meaningful revenue for the fat middle of artists who aren't superstars, these platforms are a licensed source of practically all of the world's recorded music. And that's maybe better than nothing?

I'm not sure you know how expensive it is to be on the road, how much competition there is and how the live ecosystem supports a relatively narrow set of genres. You may also not be aware that statistically, the amount of money bands make on merch as a percentage of revenue is quite low. And that, while associated costs of recording and distribution have fallen, there are still costs. Or that the records we all love included a considerable backline of specialized talent, like engineers and producers, which is perhaps why we like them better than a lot of the new mass-market music we encounter.

This isn't meant to be scoldy--I'm simply suggesting that our aggregate behaviors in the marketplace do impact the marketplace in any number of ways. And maybe we'd do well as a culture to think about the creator (or "worker," in fair trade terms) whose expression (or labor) powers the whole shebang.

If you like a piece of recorded music, endeavor to buy it directly from the artist.

not one word too few or too many. Perfect.

[Essence_Smith]

I mean the other question is, do you have a Netflix streaming subscription? Why not a streaming music subscription? Even though there's virtually no meaningful revenue for the fat middle of artists who aren't superstars, these platforms are a licensed source of practically all of the world's recorded music. And that's maybe better than nothing?

I'm not sure you know how expensive it is to be on the road, how much competition there is and how the live ecosystem supports a relatively narrow set of genres. You may also not be aware that statistically, the amount of money bands make on merch as a percentage of revenue is quite low. And that, while associated costs of recording and distribution have fallen, there are still costs. Or that the records we all love included a considerable backline of specialized talent, like engineers and producers, which is perhaps why we like them better than a lot of the new mass-market music we encounter.

This isn't meant to be scoldy--I'm simply suggesting that our aggregate behaviors in the marketplace do impact the marketplace in any number of ways. And maybe we'd do well as a culture to think about the creator (or "worker," in fair trade terms) whose expression (or labor) powers the whole shebang.

If you like a piece of recorded music, endeavor to buy it directly from the artist.

Truth be told I have in the last 3-4 years not paid attention to much in the realm of popular music...in fact it's rare I even listen to a whole release from beginning to end because even artists I loved 20 years ago barely hold my interest...I completely get your point and trust that as I did have the pleasure of touring semi nationally with well established acts for a year or better I definitely have an idea about the cost of being on the road etc...as I mentioned earlier some very close friends of mine who aren't household names make a relatively good living playing music and touring worldwide and I am privy to the dollars and cents reality for a fairly successful act. If I were in the space where newer music held me attention span I would agree wholeheartedly...and I'm not going to excuse myself from what you're saying, but personally people just aren't bringing it like they used to and I don't know how much of that has to do with the money part of it...I think if you're doing something worth paying for people will pay for it in some fashion...the "newer" acts I follow these days I have definitely supported directly and I think thats definitely the way to go for artists these days...the old model is dead...and YES I do have Netflix...

[Pandemonium]

The choice with which I'm morally and ethically comfortable:

- If you like it a lot, pay for the album. If you downloaded a discography, just purchase at least one album.

That's like going to a restaurant, ordering and sampling a dozen different meals, and paying only for the one you liked. What kind of business model works under those conditions?

[Larry B.]

The choice with which I'm morally and ethically comfortable:

- If you like it a lot, pay for the album. If you downloaded a discography, just purchase at least one album.

That's like going to a restaurant, ordering and sampling a dozen different meals, and paying only for the one you liked. What kind of business model works under those conditions?

Not a restaurant, for sure. But I think it's a reasonable model for the arts. If I had the money, I'd purchase every album instead of downloading it. However, it is unreasonable to demand that I pay for every art content I "consume."

With John Swartzwelder, for instance, I've done something similar. I downloaded and read 4 of his books, which were great. Then, I purchased the following three, at about 10 bucks per book. To me, that's perfectly reasonable. I get a taste of what he does, I approve, I buy. Same with music: Artemis introduces me to Rufus Wainwright, I go to YouTube and check him out, I download his discography for free, I approve, and when he comes to Chile I'm the first guy to purchase tickets.

[Pandemonium]

Not a restaurant, for sure. But I think it's a reasonable model for the arts. If I had the money, I'd purchase every album instead of downloading it. However, it is unreasonable to demand that I pay for every art content I "consume."

Why is it unreasonable? You can apply what I'm saying to virtually any commodity that is a luxury that has a price on it. Everything from books to jewelry to electronics to cars. Just because it's music or a movie or whatever the piece falls into The Arts, as long as it has a price tag, it's a commodity that someone expects to make money from it's sales.

What you're saying is that because something is beyond your spending limit, whether an arbitrary cost you deem the item is worth or because you simply can't afford it, you should still be able to "have" it. Would you basically "take" an Apple iPhone because you feel it's ridiculously overpriced instead of either buying a much cheaper phone or doing without? It's all the same principle, just the ease in which something can be taken without paying for it defines the limits of aquiring soemthing without paying what the artist, manufacturer or distributor deems the product's sell price is.

With John Swartzwelder, for instance, I've done something similar. I downloaded and read 4 of his books, which were great. Then, I purchased the following three, at about 10 bucks per book. To me, that's perfectly reasonable. I get a taste of what he does, I approve, I buy. Same with music: Artemis introduces me to Rufus Wainwright, I go to YouTube and check him out, I download his discography for free, I approve, and when he comes to Chile I'm the first guy to purchase tickets.

Dude. You're not Robin Hood. You don't get to redistribute profits to artists and their specific works you deem worthy of your money.

[JOEinPHX]

I steal all my music, but I will make sure to buy a tickets to see the band and then buy a hoodie or tshirt at the gig.

I try to put the money directly into the band's hands, rather than the record company. Because the record company keeps 99% of it and invests it in billboards and magazine advertisements for Rihanna rather than the band whose album I just bought.

And you'll say to me "But how are bands supposed to put out records if the record companies go under?"

The record companies aren't going under. They make billions of dollars. They just don't want to have to promote 100 artists when they can sign 3 pop artists and funnel all the money to that. So they aren't using your money for the bands you like anyway.

My favorite band is totally independent. The albums get released online for 10 bucks. I buy those. I buy tshirts. I buy their concert tickets. A record company doesn't make bands. If you want to find good music, start exploring. The internet is an amazing place. You'll find all sorts of stuff in any genre you want, that you have never heard of and would never get a single second of play on the radio by any major label.

Things won't get better till the old model is destroyed. If you support a major record label, you're supporting that label's theft of the artists you're claiming to support. Go see the band on tour. Buy a tshirt. Stick money in their tip jar at the merch stand. Buy them a drink. Most touring bands do it for the fun and have day jobs. The ones who do it for money get an advance from the venue.

[CaseyContrarian]

This is asinine.

Most indie label deals are 50-50 after recoupment. And that investment used to include tour support. These are handshake deals, not ripoff 360-degree agreements. Your choices are making it so that the only folks who can get a return on investment are the majors who only sign lowest-common-denominator acts and who can make money at scale due to having aggregated the most copyrights over the last 50 years. Why do you think the remaining three majors own equity shares in Spotify?

It's admirable that you want to support the band directly. But you might want to consider the support structures that allow musicians—and I'm not talking all, let's pretend it's a meritocracy—to pursue their art as a vocation, and not an avocation.

Or maybe you prefer that the future of music be populated only by trust fund kids and the mentally ill (no mutual exclusivity implied)?

[creep]

if i could flip a switch and make it impossible to download (paid or pirated) music i would. i miss the days of going to the record store on the day an album is released. saying all that i haven't bought an album for years.

[Pandemonium]

I steal all my music, but I will make sure to buy a tickets to see the band and then buy a hoodie or tshirt at the gig.

I try to put the money directly into the band's hands, rather than the record company. Because the record company keeps 99% of it and invests it in billboards and magazine advertisements for Rihanna rather than the band whose album I just bought.

And you'll say to me "But how are bands supposed to put out records if the record companies go under?"

The record companies aren't going under. They make billions of dollars. They just don't want to have to promote 100 artists when they can sign 3 pop artists and funnel all the money to that. So they aren't using your money for the bands you like anyway.

My favorite band is totally independent. The albums get released online for 10 bucks. I buy those. I buy tshirts. I buy their concert tickets. A record company doesn't make bands. If you want to find good music, start exploring. The internet is an amazing place. You'll find all sorts of stuff in any genre you want, that you have never heard of and would never get a single second of play on the radio by any major label.

Things won't get better till the old model is destroyed. If you support a major record label, you're supporting that label's theft of the artists you're claiming to support. Go see the band on tour. Buy a tshirt. Stick money in their tip jar at the merch stand. Buy them a drink. Most touring bands do it for the fun and have day jobs. The ones who do it for money get an advance from the venue.

That sounds all good n' all, but again, it's just window dressing justifying theft. "We" as in the average music listening public are not self aggrandizing crusaders fighting to protect the poor little musicians from the big, bad record companies. Nobody started or participated in Napster to "help" artists. The "old model" *is* destroyed, but what has replaced it is not better. Artists are getting ripped off even worse than ever by companies like Apple/iTunes and it's unquestionable that general creativity has taken a huge nosedive the past 2 decades.

I don't play politics when choosing bands I like. It's silly to ascribe idealism to one form of commerce and not all unless you are a hypocrite - "Oh fuck U2, their a big corporate entity on the world's biggest record label... but I like their new album so I'll download it for free and pay to see them when they come to town.... and maybe record some of the show on my iPhone which was made by slave labor in China."

If they're independent little DIY upstarts or big acts on major labels, that has zero impact on my buying habits. One of my favorite bands, Killing Joke releases their studio albums through a smaller but traditional record label but they also put out all sorts of live stuff, rarities compilations, books and other shit through Pledge Music or even directly through the band members themselves. I buy what I like and see them when they play locally because I like the band and their music, not because I feel any weird need to support them in one way or another because I downloaded some albums for free.

If a band I like puts out something that sucks or have just lost it, they lost my money. I'd need a fucking ledger to keep track of all the music vs shows vs merch if I played some sort of balancing act with spending my money to buy "X" because I downloaded "Y" for free.