Aint No Right

Panda, do you have a favourite out of Roth and Hagar?

Bandit72 wrote:Panda, do you have a favourite out of Roth and Hagar?

Song, album or singer?

Probably "Unchained," 1st album although Fair Warning is a close second, and Roth.

Of the 4 Hagar era albums, probably F.U.C.K. is probably my favorite but I haven't listened to it in probably 10 years.

favorite song is impossible to choose cause there are so many great ones, but I'll go with Runnin' with the devil. A few months ago I was watching a bit of a Volbeat show and then went from that to Metallica sound checking and playing Runnin' with he devil at the Rose Bowl. The song made Volbeat sound like amateurs really. They don't have a single song that comes close to that level of songwriting.

Album is the 1st one and favorite singer is Roth.

Although the Hagar period had its moments like When it's love. The verse riff in that is amazing and so is the guitar solo.

Yeh I was on about the singers. I kind of fell out of love with Van Halen when Roth left, but I watched some live stuff recently with Hagar and maybe I should have paid more attention.

Bandit72 wrote:Yeh I was on about the singers. I kind of fell out of love with Van Halen when Roth left, but I watched some live stuff recently with Hagar and maybe I should have paid more attention.

Dave has become a weird goof the last couple'a decades but that run of the first 6 albums and even the 2012 reunion album are pretty much untouchable (although Diver Down has some crap on it). From about '79 - '82, Dave was the greatest frontman of any arena-level rawk band. Dave these days is more or less what Perry would have turned out if Perry didn't get married and still partied.... a mediocre singer but a still compelling frontman and artist.

I remember seeing them during the 1984 tour and it was pretty obvious the band was not long for the world. When Dave put out that stupid EP of cover songs and soon afterwords announced he'd left the band in Spring of '85, I thought VH was done. Hiring Hagar at first seemed to be a good fit but when they debuted the "Why Can't This Be Love" single the Summer of '86, I thought they shit the bed big time. Although I saw the 5150 tour, it was really a completely different band that had lost a lot of the edge they used to have. Probably the highlight of the show was that they performed great versions of Hagar's old band Montrose' "Make It Last" and "Rock Candy." I thought Hagar sucked on the versions of the 3 or 4 Roth era songs they played. The subsequent "Monsters Of Rock" stadium thing in '88 was the first VH tour I skipped and the band completely fell off my radar for a few years after that.

Dave did an interview this week plugging what appears to be a gawdawful Las Vegas VH Tribute band month of shows and more or less said Van Halen is done. Tellingly, the video of the rehearsal footage has been removed from Facebook and YouTube.

When I saw the "Buh Bye, Van Halen", I thought one of the brothers died

Apparently, Eddie was at last night's 2nd Tool show at Staples Arena in LA with his son Wolfgang and his (former) brother in law. Guess he's not at death's door like it's been recently speculated:



Also, in an amusing incident, some guy who had no idea who Eddie was asked Eddie to take a photo of him with the guy's phone standing in front of the stage after the show:

Pandemonium wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:20 pm

Apparently, Eddie was at last night's 2nd Tool show at Staples Arena in LA with his son Wolfgang and his (former) brother in law. Guess he's not at death's door like it's been recently speculated:



Also, in an amusing incident, some guy who had no idea who Eddie was asked Eddie to take a photo of him with the guy's phone standing in front of the stage after the show:

Were you tempted to go to the Tool show with KJ opening?

Tempted, but not greatly. Biggest thing is, I'm just not much of a Tool fan. Once I saw KJ was doing an uninspiring 9-10 song opening set plus the fact I just saw them on their own last May in a small theater, coupled with pretty high ticket prices for even mediocre seats especially at a giant cavern like Staples Arena, I passed.

this is sad

creep wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:27 am

this is sad

Yeah, Roth butchers Dance The Night Away these days. Same shit on the 2012 and 2015 Van Halen tours. It's funny, but when he stays within his limited range, he's ok, but for some reason on certain songs like DTNA, he goes way above and sounds like a flaming skinned cat. As seen here, he's fine on songs where he doesn't have to do the high pitched screeching.:



The thing is, Roth, like a lot of singers getting up there in their late 60's just can't compete with their own image back when they were on top of their game. Dude can't jump off of drum risers or do spinning helicopter karate kicks anymore. Artists that are getting up there in years and dealing with diminished abilities can be a bit depressing to see at this point in their careers. Especially when in my case I'm getting to be an old fucker myself, it's more self-reflection then I want when going to a rock n' roll show to see some of these guys I grew up with and caught at the best times of their career now struggling onstage playing tunes about nailing pussy and getting fucked up well into their 60's and 70's. I don't begrudge someone like Roth still wanting to get out there and do shows after wasting years waiting on the VH brothers to get off their asses or the fans wanting to see him at this point, but it's not for me. Kind of like Perry/Janes nowadays.

Rock n' rollers aging gracefully is a very tough thing to accomplish. Better to burn out than fade away, hope I die before I grow old. On the other hand, it can be argued aging gracefully is actually anti-rock n' roll.... as Neil Young and Pete Townsend with all their crotchety, grampa-esque attitude have shown.

I heard that Eddie's not doing good, his cancer is back or something like that and he's been getting treatment in Europe somewhere...sucks

Matz wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:19 pm

I heard that Eddie's not doing good, his cancer is back or something like that and he's been getting treatment in Europe somewhere...sucks

Although he won't go into detail, Roth has said Eddie's more or less retired and Van Halen as a band are done. He is apparently getting some sort of ongoing cancer treatment that probably derailed a so-called big farewell tour last year that was supposed to include Michael Anthony back on bass. His son Wolfgang's solo debut album seems to be on indefinite hold (it's been finished for several years) that might have been tied to this rumored tour (Wolfgang as an opening act?). Once in a while, every couple months Eddie posts some photo on instagram or twitter that the hardcore fans try to pick apart for clues on how he's doing but it seems pretty apparent the next time you hear any substantial news on his condition, it'll won't be "Hey, we're ready to rock again!"

Eddie's son Wolfgang did a long interview on Howard Stern today that filled in a lot of detail on Eddie's last few years.

There was indeed talk of putting together a final tour called the "Kitchen Sink" stadium tour which would have featured the original line-up with Michael Anthony but also Hagar and Roth doing alternating groups of songs. Even 3rd singer Gary Cherone was to be included. Wolfgang's band would have opened. Apparently, the few times talk would get serious about putting this together, Ed's health would take a bad turn putting it on ice. The tour was never actually "officially" broached to Roth, Hagar or Anthony.

Wolfgang said Eddie was diagnosed with Stage 4 lung cancer in 2017 and given only a few months. Treatments in Germany gave him several more years. In 2019, Eddie had a motorcycle accident and it was discovered he had a brain tumor which required gamma knife surgery. It sounds like 2020 was pretty rough as Eddie's health declined and cancer spread through his body. They did not have a "real" funeral due to Covid restrictions although very close family did get together.

There will eventually be "vault" material released in some form but probably not for several years. Eddie wanted Wolfgang to get his own album out first (he plays all instruments and sings) and establish his own career. Wolfgang said there's a ton of material at 5150 that needs to be sorted and cataloged but he's not up for it yet.

Also played part of a track that will be on his debut album (due sometime in 2021) called You're To Blame which sounds very much like something from Tool, much heavier than the non-album track "Distance" which is more or less a tribute to his father:

Admittedly, the close attention I have paid to the VH universe since EVH's death likely hasn't resulted in any deep understanding of it. But from what I can glean, EVH appeared to worship Wolfgang in a perpetual living and breathing way. And Wolfgang's understanding of that made his filial response much more powerful than most. Their personas seem almost indistinguishable, which is really endearing to me. I am rooting hard for this guy. He doesn't seem to be affected by the trappings of his pedigree, except by the personal loss of his pop. Really enjoying getting familiar with the VH catalogue, especially the live stuff. Better late than never.

Pandemonium wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:59 pm

Eddie's son Wolfgang did a long interview on Howard Stern today that filled in a lot of detail on Eddie's last few years.

There was indeed talk of putting together a final tour called the "Kitchen Sink" stadium tour which would have featured the original line-up with Michael Anthony but also Hagar and Roth doing alternating groups of songs. Even 3rd singer Gary Cherone was to be included. Wolfgang's band would have opened. Apparently, the few times talk would get serious about putting this together, Ed's health would take a bad turn putting it on ice. The tour was never actually "officially" broached to Roth, Hagar or Anthony.

Wolfgang said Eddie was diagnosed with Stage 4 lung cancer in 2017 and given only a few months. Treatments in Germany gave him several more years. In 2019, Eddie had a motorcycle accident and it was discovered he had a brain tumor which required gamma knife surgery. It sounds like 2020 was pretty rough as Eddie's health declined and cancer spread through his body. They did not have a "real" funeral due to Covid restrictions although very close family did get together.

There will eventually be "vault" material released in some form but probably not for several years. Eddie wanted Wolfgang to get his own album out first (he plays all instruments and sings) and establish his own career. Wolfgang said there's a ton of material at 5150 that needs to be sorted and cataloged but he's not up for it yet.

Also played part of a track that will be on his debut album (due sometime in 2021) called You're To Blame which sounds very much like something from Tool, much heavier than the non-album track "Distance" which is more or less a tribute to his father:

i felt sort of bad for the guy. he seems really sensitive and has no self confidence.

Panda, do you have any recs for biographies on EVH? If any take his life through '15 that'd be best. If not, through '08?

SR wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:14 am

Panda, do you have any recs for biographies on EVH? If any take his life through '15 that'd be best. If not, through '08?

There's really nothing even close to being a definitive bio on Eddie or the band itself for that matter. Especially anything that covers his life from start to (near) finish. The better books out there mostly focus on specific eras of the band. Of the one's out there I've read:

Kevin Dodds' "Edward Van Halen: A Definitive Biography" is a "fan" authored bio that is unfortunately pretty superficial recycling various magazine article factoids and is as much about the author and his life/experiences as it is about Eddie Van Halen. Avoid.

Greg Renoff - "Van Halen Rising." Probably the best, most balanced book about the band, at least their early days. Meticulously researched (I contributed a few ancedotes). You get a pretty good idea what it was like for the band in their early club days struggling to get signed. The problem is, it only goes up to basically when Van Halen released their first album in 1978, thus you miss the big picture of Eddie and the band's professional career.

Ian Christe's "Everybody Wants Some" is a straightforward, linear accounting of the band up to just before the 2007 reunion with Roth. Basic history of the band, no real insight or research. Like a wikipedia article expanded to a few hundred pages.

Noel Monk's (VH former manager during the Roth era) "Runnin' With The Devil" is a pretty straightforward account of the band during the Roth era and does offer some insight into what made the individual members tick, but there's a lot of bitterness and resentment throughout that may be off-putting (Monk never had a contract and was unceremoniously let go after the 1984 tour).

David Lee Roth's "Crazy From The Heat" was written around 1997 soon after the disasterous MTV reunion tease. Being Roth's perspective, it's DaveDaveDave and he had a lot of bile towards Van Halen at the time. It's an ok read but you won't get much insight into Eddie beyond "he's a shitty human being without a guitar in his hands."

Sammy Hagar's book "Red" focuses on his tenure with Van Halen including the 2004 reunion when Eddie was at rock bottom. A *lot* of dish n' dirt and of course, being Hagar's perspective it's all the other guy's fault for why things never worked out.

Greg Renoff - "Ted Templeman: A Platinum Producer’s Life in Music" is surprisingly a good read about the production end of music in general. Along with producing a lot of 1970's Warner Bros bands like the Doobie Brothers, Templemen signed VH to Warner Bros in '77 and produced all the Roth era VH albums as well as the Hagar era F.U.C.K. album and includes a decent amount of info on what it was like working with the band and Eddie in particular without going into the more trashy, gossipy aspects.

I knew you'd have it. Thanks for the time.

I'll likely pick up the mostest recommended. That and the TT one. I have know about him for 40 years or so. As a youngster, I'd pour over the sleeves and covers of albums to memorize who played what etc. Ted's name began a very long period of time where I had no clue what a producer did. I'll check that one too.

Curious there hasn't been a serious, researched bio by the likes of Charles Cross, Brendan Mullen, etc on EVH.

And why hasn't panda wrote it yet?

Access. Any effort would require an infinite number of hours of interviews and research. But, I think he's got the chops to make it 'literary'.

SR wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:56 pm

(Snip)

Curious there hasn't been a serious, researched bio by the likes of Charles Cross, Brendan Mullen, etc on EVH.

There’s been several attempts by several noted authors over the years to write an authorized bio with Eddie’s cooperation. The last real attempt I know of was around 2002. The general consensus is the VH brothers were impossible to work with and wanted a ridiculous amount of money upfront and a big cut of book sales.

In defense of the brothers, they’ve been stabbed in the back by several people meant to document the inner workings of the band over the years. One guy who Eddie let have free access to him and his studio around 2006 when Eddie was in really bad shape turned around and tried to sell hours of video footage for something like $1,500 a pop.

I know nothing of their finances, except it's generational. I would think the concept of legacy would have risen on the priority pole at some point in their decades long journey. What I can imagine, it would be a crippling decision to ascribe that task to one person. When I read your post on bios, all I could think was EVH would forever be doomed to the Spicoli world of rock.

Did they somehow prevent that guy from making 1500 a pop?

SR wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:34 am

I know nothing of their finances, except it's generational. I would think the concept of legacy would have risen on the priority pole at some point in their decades long journey. What I can imagine, it would be a crippling decision to ascribe that task to one person. When I read your post on bios, all I could think was EVH would forever be doomed to the Spicoli world of rock.

Did they somehow prevent that guy from making 1500 a pop?

This is the guy who was trying to sell his tape(s):



Apparently this cat, Andrew Bennet claimed Eddie Van Halen never paid him for his work to document whatever was going on in Eddie's studio in 2006. Van Halen sued him to prevent him from selling the footage in 2018 and got an injunction to hand over the "hard drive" which contained the footage but it was supposedly damaged. Bennet apparently continues trying to sell the footage for $500 or probably whatever he can get these days despite a court order.

This was really at Eddie's lowest point, he was without purpose, recently divorced, using hard drugs including meth and drinking heavily and in dire physical shape. He allowed a producer he befriended to shoot a hardcore porn movie in his house and recorded a couple songs for the movie as seen here:



It was around this point, that his teenaged son Wolfgang intervened and pushed Eddie to work towards an eventual reunion with David Lee Roth. They spent virtually every day for months with Alex relearning the Roth era catalog as a trio before ever getting Dave back into the band. Even when the tour was first planned to be announced around Van Halen's RnRHoF induction, Eddie was still in such bad shape no one would insure the tour and they had to put him (again) in rehab and delay the announcement by about 6 months.

Had Wolfgang not stepped in and gave Eddie some purpose, it's likely Eddie would have OD'd at some point around 2007.