True Detective

[Jasper]

From what I've read the next season will be different actors, different story, different geography. This story will be resolved in some way in episode 8.

The telling of the story will end with the eighth episode. How much resolution there will be remains to be seen.

Here's a small prediction. The person who is either the Yellow King or the high priest (or whatever) of the cult will be covered with black stars. We probably hear this person's voice in the episode 8 preview. If you haven't watched that, I wouldn't say that you should, because all of the previews have been spoilery, and I don't like that (but I get over-excited and watch most of them). One of the reasons I say the person will be covered with black stars is because so many people have had tattoos, and several have black stars. Dora Lange's friend had black stars all over her neck. The blonde prostitute who sells downers to Rust seemed to have some small ones on her arm. Of course we've heard Reggie Ledoux blathering about black stars, and we've seen them in Dora Lange's diary and on broken windows of the abandoned Tuttle school (when Rust sneaks in there in 2002). Finally, in Audrey's painting which is glimpsed ever-so-briefly in 2012 in Maggie's house, we see what appears to be a figure covered with black stars, wearing a yellow hood-like thing. You can see the painting (partially) in the giant collage I posted a few posts back. I think you need to click on it and look at the enlarged version on photobucket for any of it to be legible. Interestingly, in that collage you also see Maggie is wearing a top made up of 6-point stars...white ones, not black ones. Probably meaningless, but interesting for a show that thrives on little details.

The probable source of black stars (though not the original source of Carcosa:

Along the shore the cloud waves break,

The twin suns sink behind the lake, (see below)
The shadows lengthen

In Carcosa.

Strange is the night where black stars rise,
And strange moons circle through the skies,
But stranger still is

Lost Carcosa.

Songs that the Hyades shall sing,
Where flap the tatters of the King,
Must die unheard in

Dim Carcosa.

Song of my soul, my voice is dead,
Die thou, unsung, as tears unshed
Shall dry and die in

Lost Carcosa.

—"Cassilda's Song" in The King in Yellow Act 1, Scene 2
Robert W. Chambers (1895)

Twin suns...

[Juana]

I'm thinking that Marty has something to do with this in one way or the other because Maggie has that white crown. He might even be the yellow king.

[Jasper]

my prediction....hart's wife was involved in some way with the murders and hart is either killed or kills himself.

I've heard people say this, but I don't quite know why. Then again, Audrey (Marty/Maggie's daughter) seems to have somehow seen something of the cult and we don't know how. I've heard people accuse her Grandfather (Maggie's dad). Maggie just doesn't seem to have done a thing to deserve the accusation. She was wearing stars in the last episode...but they were white stars. I guess she could have seen something as well and repressed it. Someone suggested that maybe Maggie's father had a copy of that cult sacrifice video, and that's what Audrey saw. I guess that's one possibility.

Do you suspect Maggie because she...doesn't seem suspicious? I mean, Marty makes comments about the "detective's curse" and not seeing things that are right under your nose, but is there anything else besides his fucked up daughter? I'm not writing it off, I'm just curious about why she's a suspect.

I'm thinking that Marty has something to do with this in one way or the other because Maggie has that white crown. He might even be the yellow king.

Wait...what white crown? Do you mean the daughters with the toy crown? Anyways, I don't think Marty's involved in a million years. There are so many reasons I think that will never, ever happen. I'm not very confident in making predictions, but I'm 100% convinced that Marty is not a cultist.

[creep]

my prediction....hart's wife was involved in some way with the murders and hart is either killed or kills himself.

I've heard people say this, but I don't quite know why. Then again, Audrey (Marty/Maggie's daughter) seems to have somehow seen something of the cult and we don't know how. I've heard people accuse her Grandfather (Maggie's dad). Maggie just doesn't seem to have done a thing to deserve the accusation. She was wearing stars in the last episode...but they were white stars. I guess she could have seen something as well and repressed it. Someone suggested that maybe Maggie's father had a copy of that cult sacrifice video, and that's what Audrey saw. I guess that's one possibility.

Do you suspect Maggie because she...doesn't seem suspicious?

i just think with all of the clues that you have seen with that family that someone is involved. marty seems to be too obvious of a choice at this point. i didn't even think of her father. that makes sense too.

[Jasper]

i just think with all of the clues that you have seen with that family that someone is involved. marty seems to be too obvious of a choice at this point. i didn't even think of her father. that makes sense too.

There are many clues that the daughter saw something, but that's about it. I just can't see Maggie being involved. Doesn't make sense and seems like a dumb/cheap twist. As for Marty, I don't know why Marty would be an obvious suspect. I think Marty is the opposite of an obvious suspect. I think that Marty is clearly not involved in any way shape or form. Marty's worst issues are his temper, infidelity, and (as he says) inattentiveness. Assuming his daughter saw or experienced something, I'd have to say Marty's only culpability would be that he wasn't paying attention to his family, and thus didn't catch it. I absolutely write off Marty, and pretty much Maggie as well (Maggie has one fucked up daughter out of two, and once wore white stars...that's all I can come up with )

I'll allow the grandfather as a possibility, but Audrey could have seen something at school or at a friend's house, etc. The little sister wasn't fucked up, so it seems like Audrey saw something on her own.

It will be interesting to find out the extent of what Sheriff Steve _______ (Steve the Drunk from Deadwood) knows.

I wonder if we'll see Audrey again, and if she'll reveal something to Marty or Maggie. It would be an interesting choice if the show never answers any questions about Audrey. Then people could argue for the rest of time about whether she saw something or if it was just a giant red herring built of coincidences.

Anyway, I'm worried about spoilers, so I don't think I'm going to read anything about it anywhere else until after ep. 8.

[Juana]

Marty killed that one dude that had those kids locked up as he started spouting about what was coming.. I just think there was something there. We'll see on Sunday but it would also make sense if Maggie's dad was somehow involved.

[Jasper]

Marty killed that one dude that had those kids locked up as he started spouting about what was coming.. I just think there was something there. We'll see on Sunday but it would also make sense if Maggie's dad was somehow involved.

Yeah, we'll see on Sunday, but I do want to speculate wildly now...because it's the last chance.

The thing about Marty shooting that dude is that he's always had 1. a quick temper, 2. a strong reaction to kids being hurt. Also, remember that Marty left Ledoux alone with Rust to go check out the house. We see Marty looking legitimately scared (no one is watching him) when he finds the truck, and he looks legitimately shocked when he opens it and sees the kids. It's only then that he goes back where Marty is with Ledoux, and Ledoux isn't saying anything of value...he's just prattling on about Black Stars, Carcosa, flat circles (which Rust steals), and so on. Rust is just telling him to stfu. Ledoux doesn't say, "Hey, your partner is in on it! Let's make a deal!" He just spouts the same cult gibberish we see in Dora Lange's diary, and Charlie Lange mentions, and the old woman who worked for Tuttle goes on about. They've all been drugged with the LSD/meth mix, and/or brainwashed. That old lady is triggered into a hypnotic state by Rust's questions.

Sorry if I'm rambling. I drank wine & coffee.

Yeah, and one thing I'd add is that we see Marty doing legit police work on his own, for instance getting the info on Ledoux by assaulting that scumbag at the factory rave. Plus he was the senior detective and had many chances to remove Rust from the case.

[Jasper]

[Artemis]

so, what about the lawnmower guy who made an appearance? Earl? He made that commnent about the family being there a long time. i think that was his second appearance in the entire series - significant or not??

[Jasper]

so, what about the lawnmower guy who made an appearance? Earl? He made that commnent about the family being there a long time. i think that was his second appearance in the entire series - significant or not??

Errol is presumed to be the man with the scars mentioned by multiple people, and presumably the spaghetti monster with the green ears. When Rust talks to him at the Tuttle school in 1995, he has a scraggly beard. They get a lead on Ledoux on the radio, so they go speeding off before Rust asks him much. In 2012 the detectives in the car see him at dusk. When they speed off we see him from another angle and heavy scaring is visible all around the lower right side of his face (he has light stubble, but no scraggly beard).

The elderly black woman who worked for the Tuttles is asked about a kid with scars and says his daddy did that to him and that the boy was a Childress. Childress is either a Tuttle relative name, or a Tuttle bastard name.

This is going to be complicated, but back in the day Marie Fontenot disappeared. They said she went off with her dad and her basket case mom didn't care after filing an initial report. In 1995 they talk to the sheriff in that area and he shows them that the report of her being abducted was listed as "made in error" and that the sheriff back then was Childress. Marie Fontenot is the girl on the video tape Rust shows Marty in 2012, who is ritually abused and sacrificed. She's also the one who the male prostitute remembered being present when he was molested at the Tuttle school (including by a younger man with scars). Her aunt and uncle had taken care of her for a while. The uncle was the crippled former baseball pitcher, the suspicion being that perhaps the cult did that to him.

Remember in 2002 Rust is getting a confession from a drug store robber/killer, and the guy starts saying he'll tell Rust about the Yellow King? That guy kills himself after getting a phone call from "his lawyer". Rust asks who the deputies were who escorted him to and from his cell for that call, and one is a Childress. When they find out that the call came from a remote payphone, Rust asks a cop if the dead prisoner has family, and the cop names a bunch of women and some nephews. The implication is that the prisoner was given the choice by the cult of killing himself or having his family members killed. We assume that the cult learned that he was going to squeal from the deputy Childress.

And about that missing persons "made in error" thing, in 2002 Rust goes into the computer records and finds a metric shit-ton of missing persons reports which were made, but then redacted as having been "made in error", essentially erasing them and preventing anyone from noticing and investigating the missing persons trend.

So, yes, he's important to the cult (as a core member and/or person in charge of dirty work) and comes from a long Tuttle and/or Childress line.

Holy shit, I wrote an ebook.

[Artemis]

Thanks Jasper! I appreciate the time you took to explain all that. I feel have to watch some of the earlier episodes again before the finale.

[Jasper]

Thanks Jasper! I appreciate the time you took to explain all that. I feel have to watch some of the earlier episodes again before the finale.

You deserve a cookie if you read it all. Sometimes I write very quickly and with great verbosity. It's a wonder it's not longer.


Anyway, I was glad to see Nic Pizzolatto finally debunk the "Marty did it" and "Rust did it" stuff:

By Jon Blistein
March 6, 2014 2:45 PM ET
http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news ... s-20140306

True Detective creator Nic Pizzolatto put the kibosh on any speculation that either of the two troubled sleuths at the heart of his hit HBO show is the serial killer. The author told Buzzfeed, "Going into the final episode, I wanted to end any audience theorizing that Cohle (Matthew McConaughey) or Hart (Woody Harrelson) was the killer, and also provide a concrete face to the abstract evil they’re chasing." Fair warning, spoilers ahead.

Of the myriad theories suggesting Cohle or Hart was guilty, Pizzolatto said he was a little surprised, but not frustrated, that they continued to spring up, noting that suspicion was necessarily built into the show. "I just thought that such a revelation would be terrible, obvious writing," he said. "For me, the worst writing generally just 'flips' things: this person's really a traitor; it was all a dream; etc. Nothing is so ruinous as a forced 'twist,' I think."

Pizzolatto addressed why he revealed the most likely suspect, Errol – a landscaper with familial connections to a wealthy preacher – at the end of the last episode, and what to expect in this week's season finale: "There’s enough fragmentary history in Episode 7 that, like Hemingway's iceberg, what is obscured can be discerned by what is visible. We have further context and dimension to explore with the killer, but the true questions now are whether Cohle and Hart succeed, what they will find, and whether they'll make it out alive."

Pizzolatto also spoke about the show's vibrant mysticism, something he saw constantly growing up, both in his own family (he was raised heavily Catholic), as well as the area of coastal Louisiana he grew up around. Along with the "Satanism panic" of the mid-80s and 90s, Pizzolatto pointed to a sex abuse and Satanism scandal at the Hosanna Church in Tangipahoa Parish in the mid 2000s.

"[W]e were prepped for the end of the world throughout grade school," Pizzolatto recalled of his own upbringing. "So the wild extremes of belief were always visible, and then to me it’s a short jump to a horror story. The ritual abuse in our show is the darkest side of belief, in a show where belief has been a steady underlying topic."

Amidst all the rave reviews, True Detective has also come under fire for having elements of misogyny and only simple, dull female characters. Pizzolatto dismissed the notion that the women on the show, particularly Hart's wife, Maggie, are one-dimensional or under-developed, adding, "Given that neither of our leads has a healthy relationship with a woman, and given that we only see things in their POVs, that women are not given a full representation is correct for the story being told here."

With Cohle and Hart's story wrapping up this Sunday, Pizzolatto also spoke of what might be next for the anthology series, which will introduce a new cast and setting when it returns (assuming it does – the show hasn't been officially picked up for a second season, though Pizzolatto is already at work on the scripts). While the creator wouldn't give away too many details, he suggested he was inspired by various conspiracies that have plagued the Southern California government over the past 40 years.

As for what viewers should consider about before the finale, Pizzolatto didn't mention Yellow Kings or Carcosa, but offered this cryptic suggestion instead: "Anything they want. Binary systems, maybe."

[Artemis]

Something interesting from The Atlantic on facebook this morning:


http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainmen ... le/284288/

[farrellgirl99]

HBO GO is over capacity and not working for me right now

[creep]

i liked the ending. no surprise twists...just the typical ending you might expect. i'm sure some won't like it because it was too by the books. they did leave it open for these guys to come back in an upcoming season.

goodbye true detective. it's been fun.

[creep]

oh and give an award to the set designers. i wonder how much time it took to do that house and the buildings out back.

[Jasper]

I am still digesting the last episode (and by extension the season as a whole).

They left a lot of mystery. The news report at the end says that the FBI and some other agency discredited rumors that Errol Childress (the killer) was related to the Tuttles, which we know is false. So big, unseen powers are still out there manipulating things. Marty & Rust didn't take down the cult (I guess), but they took down the guy who seems to have been in charge of abductions and most of the killing. It leaves you to wonder who is left. We see at least seven people on that video (five main guys and others who seem like lower level henchmen). Some of them may be dead. Was one of them Rev. Tuttle? Seems likely. Now he's dead. Were any of those figures Ledoux and his fat cousin Dewall? Very possible. That's four people from the video that may be dead. One question is what was the state of the cult in 2012? Was it in a state of disrepair or not? Were there significantly less members or not?

Beyond that, nothing was said of Marty's daughter, which isn't surprising. I thought they might go the route of not explaining, and that's better in a lot of ways, as it keeps the mystery alive.

Errol was talking about ascending or something. From what I could gather on first viewing he seemed to be talking about breaking free of the three dimensional reality (the flat circle), perhaps attaining a fourth dimensional perspective, as was talked about by Ledoux, then Rust.

[Hype]

I think that was excellently executed... It was a resolution without a resolution in a way that wasn't clearly predictable... and it leaves the standalone series as something that can still be talked about. This distinguishes it from, e.g., Breaking Bad, which while excellent in other ways, is over... there aren't any mysteries or difficult to resolve plot-points (aside from issues of writing). True Detective appears to have a much more interesting method.

I could watch this series again, and probably many times over, and while knowing the story arc, probably get something out of it...

Let's hope next season's story/characters continue that.

[farrellgirl99]

i was pretty disappointed by the ending. i guess it was a case of internet theories ruining the show for me because i thought they were better than what actually happened.

still enjoyable, but definitely fell a few notches for me after the initial potential.

ill be excited to see what they do with two female leads in the next series.

[Jasper]

I like the whole thing, but I do think the first act had the best vibe, and offered the most mystery.

ill be excited to see what they do with two female leads in the next series.

There's no guarantee of that happening.

A while back he made this comment:

INTERVIEWER: Has it been challenging to create a new character who can stand toe to toe with Cohle?

PIZZOLATTO: I got him.

INTERVIEWER: You do?

PIZZOLATTO: That’s when I start to know when I’m off to the races—when I’m in love again. And it’s not in love with an idea. I’m in love with a character. A character just did something on a page that made me sit up and go, “Now you’re becoming a dimensional human being to me, and I’m interested.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... latto.html

A bit later Pizzolatto casually tweeted a vague comment in response to some feminist tweet, but then deleted it. When asked why he deleted it:

"I deleted the tweet because I didn't want to be beholden to a promise and then change my mind. I'm writing Season 2 right now, but I don't want to divulge any potentialities, because so much could change. I just never want to create from a place of critical placation - that's a dead zone. So I don't want, for instance, a gender-bias-critique to influence what I do."

[farrellgirl99]

Hmm yeah I saw that but then I saw this

From what Pizzolatto has said about his second tale, the only elements sticking around from the story of Rust and Hart are strangeness and "bad men." The series creator told HitFix that the major lesson he learned from season one was not to "play the next one straight," and he summed up his next story by saying it's about "hard women, bad men and the secret occult history of the United States transportation system." Sounds pretty different, huh?

I took hard women as a clue that females may be in the lead but we shall see. I would definitely be interested in that, but if it's two men again I'll end up watching it anyway.

[Jasper]

Yeah, I saw that as well, but I don't know what it means. If I had to guess I'd guess there will be at least one female lead (X-Files style). Bad men could mean a lot of things. Rust told Marty they were both bad men who kept the other bad men from the door. You could also have a detective who's a villain. Anything's possible. Frankly I think using two female leads has the potential to seem somewhat forced, and I'm largely opposed to social justice and critical theory forcing itself on art, but I also don't doubt that Pizzolatto could make a black overweight transgender paraplegic HIV positive narcoleptic character into an interesting detective. I'm not opposed to anything like that, I only want it to come from a place of pure, honest artistic inspiration. If it feels forced, or feels like pandering to the fascistic dogma of political correctness, then it fails hard.

[Jasper]

Awwwww, yeah. Today we have just a little bit more of Rust being an asshole than we did yesterday. (deleted scene)

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/vide ... d-20140313

[creep]

Awwwww, yeah. Today we have just a little bit more of Rust being an asshole than we did yesterday. (deleted scene)

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/vide ... d-20140313

UPDATE: This clip has been removed per HBO's request.

[Jasper]

Awwwww, yeah. Today we have just a little bit more of Rust being an asshole than we did yesterday. (deleted scene)

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/vide ... d-20140313

UPDATE: This clip has been removed per HBO's request.

Sorry.

It'll be back...someday. There's probably a good amount of deleted stuff.