CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured

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Jasper
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CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured

#1 Post by Jasper » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:46 am

http://news.yahoo.com/cern-claims-faste ... 3QD;_ylv=3
CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured
By FRANK JORDANS - Associated Press

GENEVA (AP) — Scientists at the world's largest physics lab say they have clocked subatomic particles traveling faster than light, a feat that — if true — would break a fundamental pillar of science.

The readings have so astounded researchers that they are asking others to independently verify the measurements before claiming an actual discovery.

"This would be such a sensational discovery if it were true that one has to treat it extremely carefully," said John Ellis, a theoretical physicist at the European Organization for Nuclear Research, or CERN, who was not involved in the experiment.

Nothing is supposed to move faster than light, at least according to Albert Einstein's special theory of relativity: The famous E (equals) mc2 equation. That stands for energy equals mass times the speed of light squared.

But neutrinos — one of the strangest well-known particles in physics — have now been observed smashing past this cosmic speed barrier of 186,282 miles per second (299,792 kilometers).

CERN says a neutrino beam fired from a particle accelerator near Geneva to a lab 454 miles (730 kilometers) away in Italy traveled 60 nanoseconds faster than the speed of light. Scientists calculated the margin of error at just 10 nanoseconds, making the difference statistically significant. But given the enormity of the find, they still spent months checking and rechecking their results to make sure there was no flaws in the experiment.

The CERN researchers are now looking to the United States and Japan to confirm the results.

A similar neutrino experiment at Fermilab near Chicago would be capable of running the tests, said Stavros Katsanevas, the deputy director of France's National Institute for Nuclear and Particle Physics Research.

Katsanevas, who participated in the CERN experiment, said help could also come from the T2K experiment in Japan, though that is currently on hold after the country's devastating earthquake and tsunami in March.

Scientists agree if the results are confirmed, that it would force a fundamental rethink of the laws of nature, starting with the special theory of relativity proposed by Einstein in 1905.

Special relativity, which helps explain everything from black holes to the Big Bang theory about the origins of the universe, underlies "pretty much everything in modern physics," Ellis said. "It has worked perfectly up until now."

He cautioned that the neutrino researchers would also have to explain why similar results weren't detected before, such as when an exploding star — or supernova — was observed in 1987.

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Larry B.
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Re: CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured

#2 Post by Larry B. » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:54 pm

Finally... this particle has been theorized for a couple of decades... glad they nailed it.

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chaos
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Re: CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured

#3 Post by chaos » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:38 pm

They haven't nailed it yet.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/09 ... &seid=auto

Page 2
Only two labs elsewhere in the world can try to replicate the work: Fermilab and a Japanese installation that has been slowed by the tsunami and earthquake. And Fermilab's measuring systems aren't nearly as precise as the Europeans' and won't be upgraded for a while, said Fermilab scientist Rob Plunkett.

Drew Baden, chairman of the physics department at the University of Maryland, said it is far more likely that the CERN findings are the result of measurement errors or some kind of fluke. Tracking neutrinos is very difficult, he said.

"This is ridiculous what they're putting out," Baden said. "Until this is verified by another group, it's flying carpets. It's cool, but ..."

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Jasper
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Re: CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured

#4 Post by Jasper » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:41 pm

Just to be clear, this is not the Higgs Boson particle, sometimes called the "god particle." This was an unexpected event. We'll have to see how this all turns out when others give it a go.

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krakle
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Re: CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured

#5 Post by krakle » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:47 am

Jasper wrote:We'll have to see how this all turns out when others give it a go.
they still spent months checking and rechecking their results to make sure there was no flaws in the experiment.
definitely requires more than one experiment.

slim chance, I say...

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Jasper
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Re: CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured

#6 Post by Jasper » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:30 am

krakle wrote:
Jasper wrote:We'll have to see how this all turns out when others give it a go.
they still spent months checking and rechecking their results to make sure there was no flaws in the experiment.
definitely requires more than one experiment.

slim chance, I say...
That's what they've been saying themselves...
"We tried to find all possible explanations for this," said report author Antonio Ereditato of the Opera collaboration.

"We wanted to find a mistake - trivial mistakes, more complicated mistakes, or nasty effects - and we didn't," he told BBC News.

"When you don't find anything, then you say 'Well, now I'm forced to go out and ask the community to scrutinise this.'"
But for now, he explained, "we are not claiming things, we want just to be helped by the community in understanding our crazy result - because it is crazy".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

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krakle
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Re: CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured

#7 Post by krakle » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:16 am

we want just to be helped by the community in understanding
this could be misunderstood :wink:

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ellis
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Re: CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured

#8 Post by ellis » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:28 am

Once again, science kicks ass.

:rockon:

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Re: CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured

#9 Post by nausearockpig » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:48 pm

old news. I now knew about this before it happened..... :lolol:

seriously though, how fucking cool is that. If it's correct..

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Re: CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured

#10 Post by Hype » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:27 pm

Jasper wrote:Just to be clear, this is not the Higgs Boson particle, sometimes called the "god particle."
... How the hell did Larry misunderstand that? :waits:

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Larry B.
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Re: CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured

#11 Post by Larry B. » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:33 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
Jasper wrote:Just to be clear, this is not the Higgs Boson particle, sometimes called the "god particle."
... How the hell did Larry misunderstand that? :waits:
?

I didn't... this faster-than-light particle has also been theorized for a few decades. I've read about it in relation to theories of time-travel.

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Re: CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured

#12 Post by Hokahey » Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:25 am

It will be very interesting to see if the Higgs particle is ever identified. I'm skepticle.

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Re: CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured

#13 Post by Hokahey » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:21 pm


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Bandit72
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Re: CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured

#14 Post by Bandit72 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:17 am

Great program on the Higgs Boson last night.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b019h7t0

It's on PirateBay if you can't play iPlayer.

https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/694470 ... PDTV_XviD_

Exciting stuff.

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