Elections 2015

[Bandit72]

That's actually quite scary. They're like computer programs.

[Bandit72]

I have a friend in Illinois who said

"If it's a choice of him, vs Hillary, he will win. That's how bad we don't want Hillary"

When I asked if it was because of her fucking useless husband he replied

"It's because she's a liar, and under investigation by the FBI"

It's not looking good is it?

[mockbee]

I have a friend in Illinois who said

"If it's a choice of him, vs Hillary, he will win. That's how bad we don't want Hillary"

When I asked if it was because of her fucking useless husband he replied

"It's because she's a liar, and under investigation by the FBI"

It's not looking good is it?

That's ridiculous. Trump won't be the nominee. It will be close, but I have a suspicion that this is truly going to fracture the Republican Party. This isn't going to be a peaceful convention. Establishment white collar Republicans can't stand Trump and they don't like Cruz either. Maybe a third person will emerge, I thought it was going to be Rubio, but he's not gaining any popularity either.

I have heard white collar Republicans say they would vote for Hillary instead of Trump due to the fact that Trump is a whack job. They would rather have somebody they really don't like rather than somebody they fear would actually destroy the country.

There is a minority (20-30%) of very vocal morons out there at the moment, they is no where near a majority.


Ask your friend who isn't a liar......

[kv]

there is no way it's not going to be hillary...it's been that way forever

[Pandemonium]

I was wrong months ago when I said there was no way Trump would even make it to the first debate, but here we are...

Still, I have to think(hope) that having that moron Palin giving her endorsement to Trump will be the kiss of death, even moreso if he picks her as his running mate.

It floors me that my choice of the *viable* candidates is Angry Sanders.

[creep]

When I asked if it was because of her fucking useless husband he replied

what? everybody loves bill.

[Bandit72]

When I asked if it was because of her fucking useless husband he replied

what? everybody loves bill.

Really? I thought he was a lying rapist.

[creep]

When I asked if it was because of her fucking useless husband he replied

what? everybody loves bill.

Really? I thought he was a lying rapist.

people still talk shit about his cheating on hillary but he was one of the more popular presidents. during his 8 years the economy was strong and our debt was much lower. as far as being a racist....who knows but most black people love the guy.

[mockbee]

I think Bandit did mean to say rapist. There are some reported cases (juanita broaddrick) out there from his time in Arkansas that they, Hillary and Bill, have been able to skirt.

However, if he could run again, he would certainly win in a landslide. American's love him.

[Matz]

it's probably been decided for a while who'll become the president. These things aren't decided in elections but at Bilderberg meetings, Trilateral commission meetings, Council of foreign affairs meetings and places like that. The whole election process is just an elaborate political theater to make the general public believe they have influence in these matters. We don't.

The elite owns and decides for us.

[Hype]

it's probably been decided for a while who'll become the president. These things aren't decided in elections but at Bilderberg meetings, Trilateral commission meetings, Council of foreign affairs meetings and places like that. The whole election process is just an elaborate political theater to make the general public believe they have influence in these matters. We don't.

The elite owns and decides for us.

I never took you for one of those...

But seriously... elections aren't about "having influence"... they're just one aspect of democracy. I think this kind of conspiracy-theorizing is dangerous not because it gets things really, really wrong (which it does), but because it distracts from the real problems facing democracies, like the actual, verifiable, influence of money, which has become a major factor in American elections since Citizen's United. Look up Dark Money and Super PACs. You don't need to believe in some shady cabal of evil men... real corruption is much more mundane.

Oh, and it's also pretty annoying to hear Western elections described as shams, when there are real sham elections in places like Belarus, where speaking out about corruption is actually dangerous...

[Everybody's Friend]

I have a friend in Illinois who said

"If it's a choice of him, vs Hillary, he will win. That's how bad we don't want Hillary"

When I asked if it was because of her fucking useless husband he replied

"It's because she's a liar, and under investigation by the FBI"

It's not looking good is it?

Oh yeah - some guy in IL is definitely the best way to read the general public opinion of the American people. Now if it was some guy from Indiana, forgetaboutit...but that IL guy is a home run.

[mockbee]

it's probably been decided for a while who'll become the president. These things aren't decided in elections but at Bilderberg meetings, Trilateral commission meetings, Council of foreign affairs meetings and places like that. The whole election process is just an elaborate political theater to make the general public believe they have influence in these matters. We don't.

The elite owns and decides for us.

I never took you for one of those...

But seriously... elections aren't about "having influence"... they're just one aspect of democracy. I think this kind of conspiracy-theorizing is dangerous not because it gets things really, really wrong (which it does), but because it distracts from the real problems facing democracies, like the actual, verifiable, influence of money, which has become a major factor in American elections since Citizen's United. Look up Dark Money and Super PACs. You don't need to believe in some shady cabal of evil men... real corruption is much more mundane.

Oh, and it's also pretty annoying to hear Western elections described as shams, when there are real sham elections in places like Belarus, where speaking out about corruption is actually dangerous...

Right. It's not the dumb ass politicians or the behind the scenes that I am concerned about. I am concerned about the audiences at the rallies, but mostly about the sloths on the couch at home who buy the BS. Allowing bogus legislation and demagoguery to go uncontested, EVEN SUPPORTED!

The people elected demogogues. We, the people, have a responsibility to see past that, we don't seem to be capable of this.

Bernie Sanders, and there are conservatives as well, point out the hypocrisy, but it only gains steam in certain circles. I'm not saying he has the answers, but I certainly believe he has the issues correct.

Freedom isn't free.
And thankfully we do have a democracy so we don't have to resort to bullets to protect our freedoms.
(contrary to what half the Americans think "freedom isn't free" means....... )

[Matz]

it's probably been decided for a while who'll become the president. These things aren't decided in elections but at Bilderberg meetings, Trilateral commission meetings, Council of foreign affairs meetings and places like that. The whole election process is just an elaborate political theater to make the general public believe they have influence in these matters. We don't.

The elite owns and decides for us.

I never took you for one of those...

.[/quote

one of those what? Realists?! The Rothschild family control every national bank in the world except Iran and North Korea or something like that and you think Obama has all the power? No! The people who control the money supply do.

[Bandit72]

I have a friend in Illinois who said

"If it's a choice of him, vs Hillary, he will win. That's how bad we don't want Hillary"

When I asked if it was because of her fucking useless husband he replied

"It's because she's a liar, and under investigation by the FBI"

It's not looking good is it?

Oh yeah - some guy in IL is definitely the best way to read the general public opinion of the American people. Now if it was some guy from Indiana, forgetaboutit...but that IL guy is a home run.

I'll be honest, he's an ex-pat and has been in the states for the last 20 years. But "the general public" is probably an even worse comparison?

Anyway, I'm trying to learn from you lot about American politics. You live there, I don't.

[Hype]

it's probably been decided for a while who'll become the president. These things aren't decided in elections but at Bilderberg meetings, Trilateral commission meetings, Council of foreign affairs meetings and places like that. The whole election process is just an elaborate political theater to make the general public believe they have influence in these matters. We don't.

The elite owns and decides for us.

I never took you for one of those...

.[/quote

one of those what? Realists?! The Rothschild family control every national bank in the world except Iran and North Korea or something like that and you think Obama has all the power? No! The people who control the money supply do.

I'm genuinely surprised you believe this ridiculous antisemitic conspiracy theory. It's bullshit. It's been used to murder people. Come on, I know you must be able to look this up for yourself and find the reams of evidence debunking some kind of 200 year Jewish conspiracy to control the world. This belief is as insane as believing that the Japanese are controlling the world by controlling the world's supply of alcohol (via Sapporo). There are tons of Christian holding-corporations and shady organizations that no one makes these kind of absurd claims about, because Christians aren't "other". Seriously man... think about what you're saying...

[creep]

i think larry b has taken over matz's account

[Matz]

man wtf have I gotten myself into here?!

well, I'm not saying that a head of the Rothschild family is sitting somewhere with a white cat in his lap and can just make a phone call and get Hillary elected if he wants to (I went a little overboard in my first post about this, I admit) I'm just saying that these super rich families who completely dwarfs people like Bill Gates do have more influence than most people. I'm not saying it's a particular Jewish conspiracy either. I'm just pointing out that money talk usually

[blackcoffee]

When I asked if it was because of her fucking useless husband he replied

what? everybody loves bill.

Really? I thought he was a lying rapist.

people still talk shit about his cheating on hillary but he was one of the more popular presidents. during his 8 years the economy was strong and our debt was much lower. as far as being a racist....who knows but most black people love the guy.

I think Bandit said, "rapist" not "racist." Clinton was lovingly referred to by many as the first black president.

[Hype]

man wtf have I gotten myself into here?!

well, I'm not saying that a head of the Rothschild family is sitting somewhere with a white cat in his lap and can just make a phone call and get Hillary elected if he wants to (I went a little overboard in my first post about this, I admit) I'm just saying that these super rich families who completely dwarfs people like Bill Gates do have more influence than most people. I'm not saying it's a particular Jewish conspiracy either. I'm just pointing out that money talk usually

I thought you probably didn't mean to be saying all those things, but the Rothschild thing is a very specific kind of conspiracy (and it *is* antisemitic -- it's a version of same thing the Russian tsarists put out in the form of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (a fake document that purported to come from a secret cabal of Jewish leaders)). What's worse, there are no major world corporations left with any Rothschild family members involved... even the one they were a part of has no family on the board of directors, and that company is worth only billions of dollars. There are trillion-dollar class companies that do much worse (Apple, IBM, JP Morgan Chase, etc... not all of them are banks).

And you're partially right in spirit. It is true that there are very rich individuals and companies that have far too much influence, especially in American politics (see: the Koch brothers and Sheldon Adelson... who... okay... is Jewish... but then so is Bernie Sanders...)... But again, these things aren't exactly conspiracies... it's much more mundane than that... we KNOW the problem... there's just a current lack of political will to do anything about it. But in the former soviet bloc countries, there's real conspiracy... real espionage... murder (see: Litvinenko, Yanukovych, Lukashenko, Nazarbayev... fucking Putin...)... Not only do they not have democracy in those countries... when they complain about it... they can be jailed, tortured, and killed... By comparison, the corruption in western advanced democracies is mere annoyance. The American elections may suffer from the undue influence of money, but there ARE campaign finance laws, and they ARE enforced by third-parties who won't be jailed as conspirators against the government.

[creep]

When I asked if it was because of her fucking useless husband he replied

what? everybody loves bill.

Really? I thought he was a lying rapist.

people still talk shit about his cheating on hillary but he was one of the more popular presidents. during his 8 years the economy was strong and our debt was much lower. as far as being a racist....who knows but most black people love the guy.

I think Bandit said, "rapist" not "racist." Clinton was lovingly referred to by many as the first black president.

oh oops....for some reason i read racist.

[nausearockpig]

I wonder how differently the election would turn out if everyone in the USA was forced by law to vote... instead of just whinging about what the other / next / previous guy did / didn't / will / won't....

[Hype]

I wonder how differently the election would turn out if everyone in the USA was forced by law to vote... instead of just whinging about what the other / next / previous guy did / didn't / will / won't....

A lot of people would just check the first name on the ballot. There's a predictable bias for this anyway...

Non-mandatory voting tends to produce results that favour conservatives, or those who suit the interests of older generations, because young people don't vote at the same proportion.

But mandatory voting without good civic education and tight campaign finance / advertising controls would privilege "hip", "sleek" candidates who promise things by specific demographics (sort of like now, but potentially magnified).

[nausearockpig]

I wonder how differently the election would turn out if everyone in the USA was forced by law to vote... instead of just whinging about what the other / next / previous guy did / didn't / will / won't....

But mandatory voting without good civic education and tight campaign finance / advertising controls would privilege "hip", "sleek" candidates who promise things by specific demographics (sort of like now, but potentially magnified).

^^ this is what I'm talking about. In today's USAian voting world, I wonder what the results would look like. I guess I'll never know...

You could work towards getting around the "top-ticker" by rotating the printing on the ballot papers (candidate order on the voting screen) - maybe... whatever, but that's not what i was going for. Lots of people donkey vote here cos they CBF being educated enough to even understand the most basic of policies or political agendas..

[Bandit72]