RaceTogether

Discussion relating to current events, politics, religion, etc

Re: RaceTogether

Postby chaos » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:34 pm

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Re: RaceTogether

Postby Hype » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:51 am

clickie wrote:Damn Hype, you sound like someone who used to earn a living from being a cashier at the local gas station.


I didn't earn a living, but yeah, I worked for a gas station for a while, and I also worked for Starbucks briefly. I also worked for an auto glass repair shop, and a mobile truck washing company, and various other bullshit jobs. What's your point?
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Re: RaceTogether

Postby clickie » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:08 am

My point was it was interesting to see that side of your personality.
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Re: RaceTogether

Postby clickie » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:18 am

All I knew about you was youre an intellectual philosopher. I didnt realise you have some blue-collar experience to go along with it.
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Re: RaceTogether

Postby Hype » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:25 am

I see. Well, I am blue collar. I grew up in subsidized housing. I can only afford to go to graduate school because I have a scholarship.

But anyway, my personal disgust at the front-line inner workings of Starbucks, and the literally insane brain-washy corporate culture they promote, does play a role in my view of the company as a whole. In fact, just watching their standard scheduling practices was enough to make me contemplate joining the Wobblies. They're not the only corporation that does the sick shit they do to people, but they're particularly strongly opposed to attempts to unionize, and their aggressive expansionism has turned entire cities into shitty coffee wastelands full of people who pay way too much for poorly made coffee. The beans are fine, if mostly over-roasted, but they're also way over-priced.

Howard Schultz can say he wants his front-line employees to write the same shit on every cup and start up a conversation if prompted, but that will get interpreted by psychopathic mentally deficient managers as a mechanism for disciplining employees who don't adhere to a robotic bullshit script.
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Re: RaceTogether

Postby clickie » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:40 am

I think you mightve rang me up one thursday night around 4 in the morning. I was that guy who bought pork rinds and a bag of spicy peanuts.
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Re: RaceTogether

Postby Hype » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:42 am

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... istas.html

Reporter: This is a little embarrassing, but I was wondering if you wanted to talk about race.
Barista: Race?
Reporter: Yeah.
Barista: What to say about it?
Reporter: I don't know, I just saw there was that promotion going on.
Barista: Oh yeah.
Reporter: Yeah. Like, what happens if someone wants to talk about it?
Barista: I don't know. Nothing.
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Re: RaceTogether

Postby clickie » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:54 am

I cant relate to anything regarding Starbucks, I was never a coffee drinker. Although I hear they serve some food items also.
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Re: RaceTogether

Postby SR » Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:52 am

Their profit margins on their inferior food and drink are not their responsibility. They will charge what people are willing to pay.
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Re: RaceTogether

Postby Essence_Smith » Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:13 am

SR wrote:Their profit margins on their inferior food and drink are not their responsibility. They will charge what people are willing to pay.

:idea:
I'd also like someone to tell me about a company that pulls in money in the billions that is even coming close to at least attempting to look like they care about something other than their profits...please, anyone?
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Re: RaceTogether

Postby Hype » Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:54 am

Essence_Smith wrote:
SR wrote:Their profit margins on their inferior food and drink are not their responsibility. They will charge what people are willing to pay.

:idea:
I'd also like someone to tell me about a company that pulls in money in the billions that is even coming close to at least attempting to look like they care about something other than their profits...please, anyone?


Honestly, I'd prefer that corporations *not* do that. But that's a fair point. McDonald's does things like this all the time. In fact, it's arguably McDonald's that prompted Schultz to do some of the recent things he's done.

Lots of corporations sponsor runs for health issues, or start foundations: Tim Horton's in Canada funds summer camps for poor youths.

It takes literally two seconds to find this: https://www.wendys.com/en-us/about-wend ... y-overview

In order to dramatically increase the number of children adopted from foster care, the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption (DTFA) developed Wendy's Wonderful Kids (WWK) and worked with us to elevate the system fundraising to support and grow the program in every state and throughout Canada. WWK is a groundbreaking program that has made a huge impact in the world of foster care adoption.

Created in 2004, Wendy's Wonderful Kids funds full-time adoption recruiters in all 50 states, the District of Columbia and Canada. These recruiters focus exclusively on moving the longest-waiting children from foster care to adoptive families.

With 194 adoption recruiters, Wendy's Wonderful Kids has helped more than 4,000 children find their forever families, and is on track to meet its goal of helping 10,000 children get adopted by 2015. In fact, every 12 hours a child is adopted from foster care because of this work. And a recently-released five-year research study on WWK shows that children served by the program are up to three times more likely to get adopted.

Wendy's Wonderful Kids is an exciting movement that we're very proud of. And it's further proof that we don't just ask, "What can we do?" - we ask, "How can we do it better?”


Race is important, but I think we should be deeply sceptical of a company like Starbucks doing something that burdens their lowest-rung employees and doesn't involve a direct and sustained investment in any kind of social program.

How about: $1 from every coffee goes to the NAACP, and $1 from every breakfast sandwich goes to school food programs for poor children? At least this would actually do something. But it would cost them money, and wouldn't involve a goddamned in-your-face propaganda campaign with every transaction without anyone having to do anything except whatever bullshit some manager says.
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Re: RaceTogether

Postby guysmiley » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:17 am

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
Essence_Smith wrote:
SR wrote:Their profit margins on their inferior food and drink are not their responsibility. They will charge what people are willing to pay.

:idea:
I'd also like someone to tell me about a company that pulls in money in the billions that is even coming close to at least attempting to look like they care about something other than their profits...please, anyone?


Honestly, I'd prefer that corporations *not* do that. But that's a fair point. McDonald's does things like this all the time. In fact, it's arguably McDonald's that prompted Schultz to do some of the recent things he's done.

Lots of corporations sponsor runs for health issues, or start foundations: Tim Horton's in Canada funds summer camps for poor youths.

It takes literally two seconds to find this: https://www.wendys.com/en-us/about-wend ... y-overview

In order to dramatically increase the number of children adopted from foster care, the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption (DTFA) developed Wendy's Wonderful Kids (WWK) and worked with us to elevate the system fundraising to support and grow the program in every state and throughout Canada. WWK is a groundbreaking program that has made a huge impact in the world of foster care adoption.

Created in 2004, Wendy's Wonderful Kids funds full-time adoption recruiters in all 50 states, the District of Columbia and Canada. These recruiters focus exclusively on moving the longest-waiting children from foster care to adoptive families.

With 194 adoption recruiters, Wendy's Wonderful Kids has helped more than 4,000 children find their forever families, and is on track to meet its goal of helping 10,000 children get adopted by 2015. In fact, every 12 hours a child is adopted from foster care because of this work. And a recently-released five-year research study on WWK shows that children served by the program are up to three times more likely to get adopted.

Wendy's Wonderful Kids is an exciting movement that we're very proud of. And it's further proof that we don't just ask, "What can we do?" - we ask, "How can we do it better?”


Race is important, but I think we should be deeply sceptical of a company like Starbucks doing something that burdens their lowest-rung employees and doesn't involve a direct and sustained investment in any kind of social program.

How about: $1 from every coffee goes to the NAACP, and $1 from every breakfast sandwich goes to school food programs for poor children? At least this would actually do something. But it would cost them money, and wouldn't involve a goddamned in-your-face propaganda campaign with every transaction without anyone having to do anything except whatever bullshit some manager says.

10000000000000000000000000000000000000 X's YES
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Re: RaceTogether

Postby mockbee » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:54 am

If this Schultz fellow really cared about race (which has a strong and legitimate correlation with class) he would let his employees unionize, like hype said.

That would do more to help "race relations" than any slogan or conversation or any other gimmick would. It would make the ludicrous notion of the "invisible hand" a little more credible, and actually address this notion that people are struggling out there and deserve the respect of their own agency.

Sure, it would be more expensive for Starbucks with union wages and schedules, but their profit margins are insane, I don't think they would need to raise prices, and if they did, tough, people can get crappy expensive coffee somewhere else.
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Re: RaceTogether

Postby creep » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:48 am

in realized pay (includes stock options) shultz actually made over $70,000 an hour in 2013.

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Re: RaceTogether

Postby Artemis » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:13 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
Lots of corporations sponsor runs for health issues, or start foundations: Tim Horton's in Canada funds summer camps for poor youths.



Yes, lots of corporations do it.

The company I worked for did all kinds of stuff in the community with the United Way( they matched all the money donated by associates), Junior Achievement, Breast Cancer, Junior Diabetes, food banks, and many more charities and causes. They've been named an employer of choice a few times, promote an equatable workplace( all the top management are still white guys though), religious accommodation. Meanwhile...

Jobs in Canada and the US are being off-shored to the Philippines and India to maximize profit. The clients are also being charged more bullshit service charges.
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Re: RaceTogether

Postby Essence_Smith » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:16 pm

First...where the fuck is this outstanding coffee you guys are drinking that Starbucks is so bad? For the record I drink exclusively expresso from them usually on ice and don't really drink their actual coffee, but I can name 10 other places where the coffee is far worse...buncha coffee snobs is what it sounds like... :lol:

I spoke with two managers at two locations I frequent...apparently this whole thing has been blown out of proportion...to jist of it appears to be that they "suggested" that if they felt comfortable enough doing so, they could engage the customers on racial issues. Other than that you don't have much. They made some stickers available and told the baristas they could write Race Together on the cups if they liked...and consensus appears to be that most of the baristas didn't really mind as the people tend to be regulars anyways...I don't know about everywhere in the country but most of the ones I go to they're familiar enough with the customers to know their names and remember their regular drinks...so there's already a level of familiarity...I dunno I like the idea of people being encouraged to talk about racial issues (obviously) and one manager told me that many of the employees were ok with the idea and the press and backlash tended to come off like "a bunch of uptight white folks didn't want to talk about it, so they shut it down before it started"...she also added that at least in her experience there are many many college educated folks that work at SB's who were in her eyes more than capable of carrying on the conversation...I dunno...
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Re: RaceTogether

Postby Hype » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:49 pm

Essence_Smith wrote:First...where the fuck is this outstanding coffee you guys are drinking that Starbucks is so bad? For the record I drink exclusively expresso from them usually on ice and don't really drink their actual coffee, but I can name 10 other places where the coffee is far worse...buncha coffee snobs is what it sounds like... :lol:


I admit to liking really really really fucking good coffee, but I'm not a snob because I also admit to really loving diner coffee. The kind you get at shitty local greasy spoons, or even a place like Denny's. The one thing I give Starbucks credit for is making Americans (and Canadians) aware of the existence of espresso. And I get it: sometimes you just want that jolt. But ya know... in every town with Italians there's bound to be a little hole in the wall (also probably a front for the mob) where you can get a properly made espresso for 25 cents. And anyway, everyone and their mother can make a good espresso now. I find that Starbucks doesn't calibrate or clean their machines properly, and it results in an overly acidic, burnt tasting shot.

I spoke with two managers at two locations I frequent...apparently this whole thing has been blown out of proportion...to jist of it appears to be that they "suggested" that if they felt comfortable enough doing so, they could engage the customers on racial issues. Other than that you don't have much. They made some stickers available and told the baristas they could write Race Together on the cups if they liked...and consensus appears to be that most of the baristas didn't really mind as the people tend to be regulars anyways...


Why are you asking the fucking managers? They're given corporate talking points/memos, etc. A manager with a brain might do what these two said. But corporate policies aren't designed to require thinking. The fact that it was a corporate move means that a ton of employees are going to be pushed by a ton of managers to say stupid things for the same low wages. I uh... say this from experience, but also because it follows pretty clearly from other corporate policies Starbucks has. They have an explicit mission to push the idea of Starbucks being "the Third Place": the other two being Home and Work. You're supposed to be made to feel like Starbucks is the Third Place where you go as part of your day. It sounds benign, but when you're on the inside, this shit feels like a cult.

I don't know about everywhere in the country but most of the ones I go to they're familiar enough with the customers to know their names and remember their regular drinks...so there's already a level of familiarity...I dunno I like the idea of people being encouraged to talk about racial issues (obviously) and one manager told me that many of the employees were ok with the idea and the press and backlash tended to come off like "a bunch of uptight white folks didn't want to talk about it, so they shut it down before it started"...she also added that at least in her experience there are many many college educated folks that work at SB's who were in her eyes more than capable of carrying on the conversation...I dunno...


There's no real familiarity, it's part of the Third Place stuff... you're supposed to learn customers' names and their regular drinks... you're also supposed to speak in such a way that the customer feels *thanked* for having chosen Starbucks, rather than the customer being thankful for receiving good service. Again, if this were just what happened in a particular coffee house it would probably be fine, but they mandate this shit, often in the most stupefyingly robotic way.

I have no issue with baristas talking to customers about serious topics... but I do have an issue with corporations deciding to foist this shit as a matter of policy with no real money or effort to back it up.

Corporate should put its money where it's putting its employees mouths... to turn a phrase.
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Re: RaceTogether

Postby Hype » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:59 pm

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Re: RaceTogether

Postby Essence_Smith » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:01 pm

@Hype: We've never met, but your boy ES is a fairly charming fellow...at least 2 or 3 days in a week I drink whatever I want at Starbucks for free. I happen to like expresso on ice...theirs is ok and I've had better, but when it's free I don't tend to be picky. The majority of the Starbucks around my job have many workers who are very professional and take pride in what they do, but for lack of a better way to put it, they're HOOD...so I've actually seen a number of them when they're not at work as well, so with me in particular seeing me outside of their jobs and getting to know them over the years had led me to feel they're pretty familiar with me and vice versa. So the relationship is friendly and imo definitely not part of them putting on a show because corporate is pushing them to create the facade, and trust that I can tell the difference. I've had lunch with some of these people, etc...so while my personal experience obviously isn't common I think the insight that I was given was as down to earth a response as one could get...they seemed to appreciate that the company gave the employees a forum. With that in mind...would you say intention matters in this situation? The intent whether it was sincere or not was appreciated by some and I think it might actually help those people...I think that kind of thing counts for something and is kinda cool...I'm not expecting much from a big company like SB but if one guy drinks the kool aid, believes in it, works harder and feels good, well?
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Re: RaceTogether

Postby Hype » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:35 am

Can't argue with your experience. I just really think kool-aid is bad for people, even if some people really like it and thrive on it.

The thing with corporations (kool-aid pushers) is that individual people within them almost always have good intentions. Even upper management have good intentions (and bad ones). It's not the intentions that are really the problem, it's the specific form of profit-driven structure and the precise ways that that structure incentivizes and disincentivizes various behaviours. I thought the debate on the Nightly Show was pretty good: I agree that Howard Schultz and lots of others within the company had genuinely good intentions. I also think that business-folk are trained to think a certain way that allows them to have good intentions while doing bad things.
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