NYPD assassinations

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SR
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NYPD assassinations

#1 Post by SR » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:07 pm

Sad. Crazy.

The 13 year old son of one of them has some heartbreaking remarks on his loss.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/son-mourns-nyp ... d=27743242

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Pandemonium
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Re: NYPD assassinations

#2 Post by Pandemonium » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:04 pm



"Pigs in a blanket" is a phrase cop killer Ismaaiyl Brinsley tweeted online the day he went on his shooting spree. The guy with his face covered at the tail end of this clip is Ferguson protest leader Bassem Masri who was leading the chants in the above video had been invited to meet with AG Eric Holder’s DOJ in November to discuss police reform.

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kv
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Re: NYPD assassinations

#3 Post by kv » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:41 pm

Surprised this doesn't happen more often :no:

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Pandemonium
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Re: NYPD assassinations

#4 Post by Pandemonium » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:51 pm

Bad as this incident is, perhaps the bigger picture is the public exposure of the deep resentment between Mayor del Blasio and the NYPD.

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#5 Post by Romeo » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:45 am

Pandemonium wrote:Bad as this incident is, perhaps the bigger picture is the public exposure of the deep resentment between Mayor del Blasio and the NYPD.
also keep in mind the Police Union is in the middle of new contract negotiations. The PBA President Pat Lynch is feeding the fires to make this tragic event political to his advantage. And that's just horrible.

“That blood on the hands starts on the steps of City Hall in the office of the mayor,” Lynch said in statement. “When these funerals are over, those responsible will be called on the carpet and held accountable.”
But he doesn't want to admit or hold accountable that there is blood on his hands for not owning up to the fact one of his officers made a tragic mistake with Eric Garner. Or the rookie cop who shot the unarmed Akai Gurley in a stairwell. Instead of standing up and saying "We need to review our training" they let it ride, backed them up and the community was angry. Officer Pantaleo which was the accused of the deadly choke hold has had other suits against him for "Police Brutality" or civil rights issues. Perhaps he needs to be pulled off the streets or retrained and evaluated. Being a Police Officer is not a easy job, you need to make split second decisions that can have deadly consequences, you see shit that no one wants to see (murders, accidents etc...) It has to effect ones head. Not everyone can continue on the force after much exposure to seeing the side of humanity that isn't so pretty.
Make counseling available and less stigmatized. After 9/11 a lot of guys on the NYPD & FDNY ended up with PTSD, drinking problems, drug problems. It was affecting their jobs, home life and relationships. The only counseling they would go for was "peer counseling" Retired officers trained to listen. Maybe they need more of that available. I don't know, I just know I have been around Police Officers my whole life, have heard the stories. See what they believe is sometimes handed to them from the PBA, which isn't necessarily the truth, just the Police truth.

Instead of hashtags of "Blacklivesmatter" or "Policelivesmatter" Maybe we need to remember #ALLLIVESMATTER and learn to respect one another.

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#6 Post by SR » Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:14 pm

This is very, very bad

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#7 Post by chaos » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:23 pm

If people want to support policemen, this is not the way to go about it. :no:
http://gawker.com/i-can-breathe-an-even ... 1673519049

"I Can Breathe": An Evening with the Men of #ThankYouNYPD
Brendan O'Connor
Saturday 9:30am

Image

If you wanted to hear both sides of the argument about race relations in America last night, you might have made your way down to City Hall in New York, where pro-NYPD and anti-racism demonstrators yelled at each other across barricades. "You're a fucking racist," one side screamed. "You're a fucking moron," the other side screamed back.

I asked one man wearing a "I Can Breathe" t-shirt what the phrase meant. "If he hadn't resisted arrest," the man said with a shrug, "he could still breathe."

A chant started: Hands up! Don't loot! A demonstrator next to me asked his friend, "Are they saying, 'Don't loot?' or 'Go blue?'" His friend laughed. "Either one, they both work," he said. Over 1,000 people had RSVP'd "Yes" to the listing for the event on Facebook; on Friday night I didn't see more than 50 people on the pro-NYPD side, and half of those were probably reporters.

One man had flown in from Colorado specifically for the event. He brought the "I Can Breathe" t-shirts with him. "I'm not pro-cop, I'm not anti-cop," he told me. "Whenever somebody gets killed there's going to be tension." Another chant started: Don't resist arrest. Don't resist arrest.

"We've got four more years of this," one man, who told me his name was Bill Owens, a retired NYPD detective, said to another. "Three," his friend replied. "Don't make it longer than it already is."

Petulant police union leader Pat Lynch recently complained of the lack of support coming from City Hall: "If they're not going to support us when we need 'em, we'll embarrass them when we can."

"This is what happens when people don't vote," Owens said. I asked him what he meant. "This," he said again, gesturing vaguely towards the opposing protestors, City Hall, New York City, America, etc. "This... progressivism. This whole thing that Obama and De Blasio are on."

"These people are pyschos," John Plant, a retired member of the FDNY, said, referring to the counter-protestors. "At what point does it end?" Owens shook his head. "They're professional agitators. It goes all the way back to George Soros," he told me.

"These people talk about 'white privilege,'" Plant said. "I don't call it white privilege. I call it family privilege. American privilege." He was just gearing up. "You know, a lot of black people don't feel safe in their own neighborhoods. There's a lot of talent in the black community, and it's suppressed. It makes me sad."

"Cops don't want to hurt people," Plant said. "They want to help people."

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#8 Post by SR » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:41 pm

Yeah, as with some hyper polarizing conditions/situation, there is real opportunity for understanding, compassion and ultimately healing. But as with most of these unfortunate opportunities we'll fail miserably.

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#9 Post by Romeo » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:00 am

Pat Lynch has a history of making inflammatory statements to fan fires

http://gawker.com/nypd-union-president- ... 1674178970

People love to point to Sharpton, calling him a rabble rouser. But the PBA President is just as bad IF NOT worse.

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#10 Post by Essence_Smith » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:59 am

Lest we forget why this is happening...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the- ... e-edition/

This wasn't in NY obviously, but it's another example of bad "policing" followed by a death of a CHILD of color, followed by outright LIES and excuses as to why this kind of action is justified...if the NYPD hasn't learned anything in the last few decades, they need to understand what you don't say is just as important as what you do say and things might be at least slightly better if they'd just admit that sometimes the actions of their officers are unnecessary and that they can and DO make mistakes. Instead we usually get this vibe of police blindly sticking up for one another and then the PBA president points a finger at the mayor because he wants to play political games in the midst of tragedy...

My prayers go out to the families of those officers...I don't hold any malice for police officers in general, but I think what they all know and are unwilling to admit lest they seem like they're going against their own is that there is a LOT wrong with the NYPD and things need to be improved. Romeo's done a great job of summarizing a lot of what I think needs to happen...

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#11 Post by Romeo » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:32 am

also the killing of Oscar Grant by BART Police in Oakland
I've seen the video, it's so disturbing.


Just ADMIT you made a mistake, an apology doesn't make it go away but it can help diffuse a situation.

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#12 Post by Romeo » Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:00 am

So they laid Officer Ramos to rest on Saturday. The funeral was televised. And like a big immature fraternity the NYPD present turned their backs to the BIG TV screen when Mayor DiBlasio spoke.


I'm sorry but that was not the time or the place. It was disrespectful to the family to bring politics front and center instead of Officer Ramos.

Then it got me thinking about Frank Serpico. How he was the only cop to have the balls to blow the whistle on corruption. You can support Law Enforcement but not support the actions of a few rogue who shouldn't wear the badge. But apparently it's either all or nothing....and if your not "all" your a cop hater. :no:

Anyway, back in October the NY Daily News spoke to Frank
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ser ... -1.2034651

Dude makes perfect sense.

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#13 Post by SR » Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:28 am

Over time my rants on cops have been fairly strident .... might even have alienated some, but I agree completely with Romeo here. I don't hink it is a sign of weakness to admit wrongdoing or errors however substantial they are or how costly the fallout might be. I think it's a sign of virtue and we can, no, should expect this level of nobility from the police force.

This "we can do no wrong" position (which btw also is prevelant in the court system) really goes a long way to diminish them in my eyes. Additionally, one can't maintain traction in these revisionisms without further lies and corruption. Shameless

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#14 Post by tubro » Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:57 am

This thing has bothered me tremendously recently. There's some very well expressed and smart commentary in this thread. Thank to those who took the time.
Some random thoughts from this New Yorker.
Pat Lynch is the devil in this. Problems need solutions. There's a problem here. He is no part of any solution whatsoever. Which is fine - it applies to most people. But he's taking misdirected outrage to a place far worse than imaginable, in a time where he could be doing some good.
The stink of false outrage and ridiculous accusations from cowardly bullying white men here makes fox news look tame. I thought that the whole post 9-11 idea that being anti war was the same as being anti american or pro terror was bad enough. but here a demented inverse has become a nasty reality. Being outraged by the most recent Eric Garner type episode and the general plight of dark skinned pedestrians in NYC means that you must secretly celebrate the two recent cop assassinations and hate all cops. And that is simply absurd. The truth is that anyone who doesn't grieve for the two dead cops is a sadistic asshole. I don't know a soul who didn't recognize the utter tragedy of their deaths, the depavity of their killer or the fact that nearly all cops deserve our thanks and respect for nearly everything they do. But it has nothing to do with Garner, Ferguson, etc. and the notion that the conversation about police reform needs to stop because a sicko committed an atrocious crime is offensive.
why can't i grieve with equal sincerity and outrage at the two dead cops and the one dead chokehold victim? at least cop killings are very rare, but every cop who works a dangerous job for the greater good lives with that risk and fear and they all deserve their grief. so does every black person who knows what it's like to be stopped and harassed by cops. only one needs a culture change on both sides.
it reminds me of fox's war on christmas. it's just simply a lie. the war on cops is the same thing. just a lie.
deblasio exercised poor judgment in not realizing that the timing was bad for him to talk about the risk from police to his son. but that was one boneheaded utterance in the midst of weeks of considered and respectful words about the police, after garner, during the protests, and recently. deblasio has no blood on his hands. the sicko from baltimore has it. pat lynch is quick to point out that it's unfair that all cops are blamed when an eric garner thing happens. and he's right. the difference, though, is that virtually every black kid who's lived in nyc for the past 20 years has been scarred by the way black people are treated by the police. not all police. but a department that has failed to lead by reform, admission, etc.

bottom line, in a world of truth, we could grieve the two cops and continue to fight for a reformed nypd. until then, the wheel turns and turns.

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#15 Post by Romeo » Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:56 am

:nod: SR & Tubro!

Especially the point about anti-war=anti-american in a post 9/11 world. That shit just pissed me off. THEN when it came out that we WERE right about Iraq not having WMD's....it was quickly shoved under the carpet or excuses of "bad intelligence"

Look, just like Vets suffering from PTSD, so do Police. You can't possible live that life seeing people with their brains splattered on ceilings and dead babies and NOT be affected. And you can't possibly not allow that to affect your job (and home life, why do you think so many Officers drink). You're required to be psychologically evaluated before your hired, they should be required to be evaluated again every year at their hire date anniversary.
Plus, this "blue wall of silence" has to be knocked down. They Themselves have to stop protecting and sticking up for the cops in their precincts that should not be on the streets dealing with the public. When you do, this is the end result and you put your own life in danger.

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#16 Post by Romeo » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:31 am

and they did it again this past weekend at Officer Liu's funeral even though their superior Commissioner Bratton told them not to

http://nypost.com/2015/01/04/cops-again ... s-funeral/

So they disregard the commands of a superior? In the private sector that gets you fired for insubordination. To get respect you have to give respect.

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#17 Post by Pandemonium » Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:26 pm

Romeo wrote:and they did it again this past weekend at Officer Liu's funeral even though their superior Commissioner Bratton told them not to

http://nypost.com/2015/01/04/cops-again ... s-funeral/

So they disregard the commands of a superior? In the private sector that gets you fired for insubordination. To get respect you have to give respect.
Yeah, this whole thing is starting to backfire against the NYPD, at least in the national media. Pulling that shit at the two cop's funerals is utterly bad form and extraordinarily petty.

Although somewhat different, back in 2000 and again in 2003, the NYPD reacted strongly against Bruce Springsteen when he performed his song "41 Shots" which was primarily about the shooting of Amadou Diallo. At Springsteen's MSG stand in 2000, cops doing security turned their backs to the stage when the song was performed with some yelling at Springsteen calling him a "floating fag" while in 2003 at Shea Stadium, the NYPD pulled their usual police escort at the last minute (standard for any big arena or stadium concert band) after Springsteen performed the song one night.

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#18 Post by kv » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:35 pm

Pretty sure, if roles were reversed, the two dead cops would be doing the same
:noclue:

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#19 Post by Romeo » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:45 am

Pandemonium wrote:
Romeo wrote:and they did it again this past weekend at Officer Liu's funeral even though their superior Commissioner Bratton told them not to

http://nypost.com/2015/01/04/cops-again ... s-funeral/

So they disregard the commands of a superior? In the private sector that gets you fired for insubordination. To get respect you have to give respect.
Yeah, this whole thing is starting to backfire against the NYPD, at least in the national media. Pulling that shit at the two cop's funerals is utterly bad form and extraordinarily petty.

Although somewhat different, back in 2000 and again in 2003, the NYPD reacted strongly against Bruce Springsteen when he performed his song "41 Shots" which was primarily about the shooting of Amadou Diallo. At Springsteen's MSG stand in 2000, cops doing security turned their backs to the stage when the song was performed with some yelling at Springsteen calling him a "floating fag" while in 2003 at Shea Stadium, the NYPD pulled their usual police escort at the last minute (standard for any big arena or stadium concert band) after Springsteen performed the song one night.
again, they need to STOP SUPPORTING THE BAD APPLES AMONG THE RANKS that make the dept look bad!

I worked with a Doctor who did his internship at Coney Island Hospital when they brought in Abner Louima. He saw the original x-ray. He said NOTHING in Medical School could ever prepare him to see what those cops did to that man.
(Abner Louima was arrested outside a nightclub in Brooklyn, while in Police custody he was sodomized with a broken broom handle in bathroom of the 70th Precinct by the three arresting officers, leaving him with severe internal damage to his colon and bladder). Of course 2 out of the 5 Officers involved received criminal sentences in this case. There is absolutely no way you can defend or justify anything those officers did that day.

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#20 Post by Romeo » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:47 am

kv wrote:Pretty sure, if roles were reversed, the two dead cops would be doing the same
:noclue:
It doesn't matter, they were given specific orders by the Commissioner and they defied orders.

Try that shit in the Military and see how far that gets you.

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#21 Post by farrellgirl99 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:15 pm

I thought this was an excellent piece

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/01/12/fire-time

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#22 Post by kv » Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:30 am

Romeo wrote:
kv wrote:Pretty sure, if roles were reversed, the two dead cops would be doing the same
:noclue:
It doesn't matter, they were given specific orders by the Commissioner and they defied orders.

Try that shit in the Military and see how far that gets you.
Pretty sure in clown college they don't care...how does that relate you ask? About as well as comparing the police to military :aoa:

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#23 Post by Romeo » Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:55 am

kv wrote:
Romeo wrote:
kv wrote:Pretty sure, if roles were reversed, the two dead cops would be doing the same
:noclue:
It doesn't matter, they were given specific orders by the Commissioner and they defied orders.

Try that shit in the Military and see how far that gets you.
Pretty sure in clown college they don't care...how does that relate you ask? About as well as comparing the police to military :aoa:
actually, no. Military & LE are very similar in how they are run

Both can not strike. Both must follow orders given by their superiors. If some one in the military, in uniform was to turn their back on the Commander in Chief because he "didn't like him" that soldier would be court marshaled

Besides, you arm the Police with tanks and you basically have a freaking army

we need less of this
Image

And more of this
Image

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#24 Post by kv » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:43 pm

Better get yourself a time machine or a script writer

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Re: NYPD assassinations

#25 Post by Romeo » Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:40 am

Policing should be community based. If your in a certain precinct for majority of your career you should know the residents and store owners on your beat. You should also represent the people you protect.

You should not be para-military and treat every citizen as a suspected terrorist. Leave that to special units like ESU. I would like to say "since 9/11" but bad policing and police policies have been going on way before 9/11/01. Like we pointed out with Amadu and Abner.

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