74 School Shootings in 18 Months

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74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby Essence_Smith » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:09 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/1 ... 80811.html

So do the people who like guns a lot still think we don't need to change a few laws? And is it me or is there a generation growing up very ill equipped to deal with LIFE?
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby chaos » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:51 pm

There have been about 20 more since the article above was published - the most recent last week in Washington. :sad:
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby LJF » Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:12 am

is it guns or do we need to address another issue? Like what makes people or in this case kids think the only way out is to kill other people. Where was the jump from fighting to shooting? As ES said are we raising a bunch of kids that are so ill-equipped to deal with life?
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby creep » Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:26 am

i think a big reason is the way people get their news now. with these stories all over social media the kids now know that this is the trend and this is the way to become famous. access to guns doesn't help either. :noclue:
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby kv » Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:54 am

Essence_Smith wrote:So do the people who like guns a lot still think we don't need to change a few laws?

pretty sure there are already laws against shooting people...that stopped them right? right??

i'm afraid it's a much bigger problem then guns
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby tvrec » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:35 am

Obviously the issues behind school shootings, and all the others in the States for that matter, run well past GUNS. But it's not an either/or problem, e.g. either it's the fault of kids ill equipped to deal with life or it's the guns. Anyone who thinks access to guns is not part of the problem is, quite frankly, delusional.
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby SR » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:29 am

hes right.jpg
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby Essence_Smith » Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:41 am

tvrec wrote:Obviously the issues behind school shootings, and all the others in the States for that matter, run well past GUNS. But it's not an either/or problem, e.g. either it's the fault of kids ill equipped to deal with life or it's the guns. Anyone who thinks access to guns is not part of the problem is, quite frankly, delusional.

Stephen King wrote a book under the pseudonym Richard Bachman called Rage...it was published in 1977: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_(Stephen_King_novel)

He let the book go out of print years ago after a few incidents that resembled the situation in the book started happening. So as far back as the 80's there have been hostage situations or mass shootings in schools by students...imo there is a lot of copycat stuff going on. King wrote the book because he wanted to express frustrations he had a student growing up...kids in high schools, etc have been going through this stuff since the beginning of time, but let's be honest about how guns are held up in America...I'm sorry to the people who feel it's their "right" to own one. Hunters and sport shooters and the like, but the old BS doesn't hold water for me. It's too easy to get your hands on a gun in this country...add in the fact that media, TV film and what have you glorify the power of the gun and add in the age old frustrations of teenagers and it's a bad mix... YES the problems that exist with our young people go WELL beyond guns, but does gun culture in America help? Rhetorical question of course, but it's rather silly to me of the people who are "supportive" of guns to be funny about the original question...people DO indeed kill people, but a gun in the hand makes it a lot easier obviously...
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby tvrec » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:27 am

^ ditto--

The only potentially positive, if one could use such a term here, is that schools remain relatively safe places (at a statistical level) in comparison to others in which kids spend their time. More kids die, cumulatively in the US, from gun violence in their own/family/friends' homes when a weapon is discharged by someone they know quite well.
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby Hype » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:10 am

kv wrote:
Essence_Smith wrote:So do the people who like guns a lot still think we don't need to change a few laws?

pretty sure there are already laws against shooting people...that stopped them right? right??

i'm afraid it's a much bigger problem then guns


Australia is a pretty good case study in the kind of laws that can (almost immediately) change things. It's not just laws against shooting people. But I think it's obvious that there are other issues.
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby blackcoffee » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:18 pm

I live in Seattle. Seattle Pacific University is about two miles from us. The more recent shooting is about forty minutes away. I'm just amazed I can count two school shootings in such close proximity to me.

My reaction is this:

Any politician who is not voting to fund/support access to mental health as well as voting for stricter gun laws should be required to be next on the scene to clean up the blood. Remember that slogan after Newton: Not One More. What a bad joke.

If we can't combat this madness through gun laws and mental health access we should create a nationwide curriculum that teaches kids empathy and emotional health strategies from kindergarten up.
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby kv » Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:17 am

That sounds like a plan...now get out your checkbook because taxes need to go way the hell up for all that
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby Essence_Smith » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:34 am

kv wrote:now get out your checkbook because taxes need to go way the hell up for all that

Spoken like a guy who doesn't have any kids to worry about...I never get this thing about taxes...we're paying them anyways and they're constantly going up, so what's the difference really? Have your taxes ever been lowered?? :lol:

I've mentioned this before and I'll say it again...having lost a parent very young and having access to a teacher who was a psychologist was a BLESSING to me and I may have ended up a completely different person if this woman was not available to me during those years. I can't see why this kind of thing shouldn't be the case in every school...someone who's already on the payroll as a teacher who can also be on hand to serve in a clinical capacity doesn't sound expensive...there are public schools all over the U.S. where kids have ipads for every class, so changing the curriculum to accommodate the situations kids are going through now also doesn't seem very costly imo...

I think it says a lot that we're on this subject and people still want to downplay the role the guns actually play in these situations...oh the kid had mental issues, etc...ok, mental issues among teens and young people, not new...but come the fuck on, EVERYONE should be on board to change the gun laws to prevent these situations...it too fucking easy to get them, period. You're more concerned with your personal "right" to get one than the right for a kid to go to school without the risk of getting shot? I really don't get the attitude at all...if you're going to say the problem is bigger than guns because you like guns, but you actually do care about people's lives then how come I don't see any pro-gun people even making an attempt to solve the problem?
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby kv » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:43 pm

I've explained my views on guns many times here ...it is always glossed over

Guns are not going anywhere in this country without revolution...this country is over saturated
with them.

Laws will not stop someone who does not care if they die from breaking them

This country does not have the money to even feed our homeless much less deal with all the mentally ill who are homeless

Kids can't buy guns legally so people are dropping the ball with allowing guns to be accessible to their children which is clearly to me a giant problem

Add in the fact we allow children to watch whatever they want, do online whatever they want, play gta games from young ages and add in the ability to do things behind keyboards they don't have to answer for its.little wonder they aren't equipped to handle life

I read about how kids can't read people like they could 20 year ago they don't look people in the eye as often can't read body Language as well or emotions..they are more emotionally detached...little wonder kids are having less trouble killing their class mates

To just keep harping on guns seems extremely short sighted to me

As for the "well you don't have a kid" I buy that sure I don't but that doesn't mean I don't care for the future or for the children of my friends and family some I have known for over 20 years and care for greatly I worry about what this world is becoming for sure..im not 18...my views have merit..my sister teaches 3rd grade in an underprivileged area and my god so many kid just have no chance in this world...they can hardly teach them more then state test prep in certain schools still to this day...the schools here in Cali are fucked...cali isn't adding shit to their schools..only slowly taking away..these are facts...cali is in pretty severe financial trouble so no the things you mention are not possible at this time..here anyway unless taxes go way up...that's a fact..i never said don't raise taxes..but the 6k on property taxes alone every year are getting outs hand...sales tax prob needs a raise..you think people are gonna vote for that? I don't...sorry ES I'm a realist this shit is gonna just get worse to the point the entertainment we call the news will stop covering it as much..just like our homeless...more children are negativly impacted by drugs like crack then guns...hows that war on drugs going again?
Last edited by kv on Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby Hype » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:51 pm

KV, with all respect, some of your claims talk past the point. You created a weak scenario by couching it in terms of being useless for stopping "someone who does not care if they die from breaking [gun laws]". But this is called "begging the question", and it's not a valid move. The reason is that you've assumed that gun laws are only effective and only achieve the goals of the people who want them if they *could* stop such people, but you stipulate right at the beginning that they can't. That's not a good argument. I suggested that Australia is a good case where you can look at actual data for violent gun-related crime (including mass murder) before certain gun laws were introduced, and the same data afterward, and it shows that gun laws are working in Australia. There's no good argument for not at least trying to implement the same laws anywhere there are mass-murders, because it's not about taxes, or about some hypothetical zombie-killer who isn't afraid of gun laws, but about looking at what options a civil society has, based on real data, for doing something that works to prevent gun-violence. So you can't just argue against it by stipulating that it doesn't work... you'd have to either show how the data doesn't show that it does work (but it does show that it does work), or give very good reasons why it couldn't work even in principle in the United States. But I suspect that last option is impossible, even given the NRA and the unique gun culture the US has.

Kids can't buy guns legally so people are dropping the ball with allowing guns to be accessible to their children which is clearly to me a giant problem


This is true, which makes it ironic that you're against gun control laws, when one such law (in New Jersey I think) would have made it so that ALL GUNS must be so-called "Smart-Guns" that can only be fired by the owner, or authorized users. But that law was, ... sadly, and unironically, shot down.
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby kv » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:59 pm

I'm on a cell that last post almost killed me...i have wanted to get into Aussie with you because its a night and day comparison to the USA...you have to know that right? Well do this later I promise prob in pms because won't be the forums whipping boy on this subject again for stating the obvious...i will hit you back though
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby Hype » Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:05 pm

kv wrote:I'm on a cell that last post almost killed me...i have wanted to get into Aussie with you because its a night and day comparison to the USA...you have to know that right? Well do this later I promise prob in pms because won't be the forums whipping boy on this subject again for stating the obvious...i will hit you back though


No problem. I'm willing to be convinced that the situation is so different in the United States that the implementation of laws *like* the ones in Australia won't have *like* effects. I'm sceptical that that argument will work, but the fact that people believe it so strongly suggests that it can't be rejected for no reason.

See, e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2704353/

This seems like a fairminded consideration of it in relation to the US: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... australia/
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby Hype » Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:41 pm

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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby LJF » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:19 am

Essence_Smith wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/10/school-shootings-since-newtown-_n_5480811.html

So do the people who like guns a lot still think we don't need to change a few laws? And is it me or is there a generation growing up very ill equipped to deal with LIFE?



This isn't about guns or gun control, but when I read this it made me think about what ES said. I really think that we or at least a lot of parents I see need to rethink how we are raising our kids.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-my-chil ... ilds-boss/
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Re: 74 School Shootings in 18 Months

Postby nausearockpig » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:45 pm

so this is both funny and exactly what us Aussies think about you lot in the US....

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