James Foley

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Hype
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Re: James Foley

#26 Post by Hype » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:34 pm

I don't know what you do with creatures who can decapitate another human being, other than find them and destroy them. We (the West) used to employ them (or create them) as executioners, I guess... and I imagine one could be groomed into dehumanizing another so much that this behaviour becomes not only possible, but acceptable... I'd say it's inhuman, but that'd be a lie... We should probably also try hard not to adopt the same dehumanizing attitude toward any broader group of people we associate with these barbarians.

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Essence_Smith
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Re: James Foley

#27 Post by Essence_Smith » Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:15 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:We should probably also try hard not to adopt the same dehumanizing attitude toward any broader group of people we associate with these barbarians.
I worry about this...the same way many associate the behavior with people who practice Islam...as if all Christians molest little boys...I HATE that religion is being used the way it is on both ends of this...

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Hype
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Re: James Foley

#28 Post by Hype » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:01 am

Essence_Smith wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:We should probably also try hard not to adopt the same dehumanizing attitude toward any broader group of people we associate with these barbarians.
I worry about this...the same way many associate the behavior with people who practice Islam...as if all Christians molest little boys...I HATE that religion is being used the way it is on both ends of this...
Half the planet is, by definition, dumber than the other half (that's just how IQ, one measure of intelligence, goes...), so start with that, and then combine with lack of access to higher quality secular public education in so many places, add to this an arbitrary but locally very powerful authority-structure that has its origins in medieval/ancient war-like cults, and you get this shit pretty easily. I mean both the propensity for religiously-motivated (or religiosity triggered) evil, and the wrong kinds of reactions to it.

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SR
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Re: James Foley

#29 Post by SR » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:19 am

Science teaches us how to fly to the moon and beyond. Religion teaches us how to fly into buildings.

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Essence_Smith
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Re: James Foley

#30 Post by Essence_Smith » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:34 pm

I think religion has its place...I lost a parent at a young age and between working with a therapist and finding comfort in the church I was able to sort things out until I eventually grew out of being so religious. It helped me in some way and I think it has some value. I've seen a lot of people who were criminals and hurt people turn to religion to help straighten themselves out. So I've seen ways it can be used on both sides of that spectrum and I'm not completely against it either...just a shame considering most religions are saying pretty similar things at their root, and how twisted up people make them in order to suit their needs...

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Hype
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Re: James Foley

#31 Post by Hype » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:56 pm

Essence_Smith wrote:I think religion has its place...I lost a parent at a young age and between working with a therapist and finding comfort in the church I was able to sort things out until I eventually grew out of being so religious. It helped me in some way and I think it has some value. I've seen a lot of people who were criminals and hurt people turn to religion to help straighten themselves out. So I've seen ways it can be used on both sides of that spectrum and I'm not completely against it either...just a shame considering most religions are saying pretty similar things at their root, and how twisted up people make them in order to suit their needs...
I think the thought SR might have in mind, and it's something I think is probably right, is along the lines of what Douglas Adams meant when he said: "Isn't it enough to think the garden is beautiful, without imagining faeries at the bottom of it?" (And worse, hold up certain humans as representatives or interceders on our behalfs with some magical idea?)

The good of religion that you speak of here I absolutely think any society needs... my brother made use of it too (unlike me) -- the establishment of a longstanding set of traditions and ready-made social network, and welcoming anyone into this support system with only ritualistic hoops to jump through... is extremely powerful, especially when, e.g., the secular counterparts have embedded (just as Christian, btw) hoops in them that prevent many people from easily making use of them (such as the requirement that one prove oneself to be "actively looking for work" to receive EI benefits, which the Church does not demand of those it doles charity toward... that being somehow different...) Plus, you know, people need an identity... and a lot of people have trouble coming to one on their own.

But of course that value of religion has nothing to do with the bullshit mystical beliefs it also tries to brainwash people into believing through ritual and mental manipulation. You don't have to believe a guy walked on water and cast out demons to believe that it's really really really good to literally love your neighbour as yourself. :neutral: And if you do believe some guy rode a winged horse named Burak into outer space, and you're also told that that guy said it's your duty to struggle against the "unbelievers" and maybe even murder them... then... well.. uh... it would be weird if you didn't sort of think you might have a duty to at least support people who do want to murder them... :waits:

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Re: James Foley

#32 Post by Essence_Smith » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:32 pm

The best "holy" man I knew was my pastor in catholic school...(I went to a pretty progressive one...they taught us legit sex ed, birth control, etc) He actually spoke to us once on how the bible was a book of "legends" not to be taken literally and told us to examine the stories for the symbolism they conveyed and the lesson they were trying to teach. I always had a deep respect for the fact that he took the step further to be honest with a bunch of kids who questioned how legit the stories in the bible were. He also pretty much broke down how the teachings of Christ and Christianity were completely different things and if we didn't fully buy into the system of beliefs we should at least listen to one of the main things Christ taught...love thy neighbor as thyself (do unto others)...pretty much I enjoyed the fact that he kept it simple and didn't try to get us to buy into anything that wasn't very logical. I got off pretty lucky... :hehe:

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Re: James Foley

#33 Post by Hype » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:10 pm

Yeah which is a hell of a lot more tolerant than the average Catholic back in the day...

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chaos
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Re: James Foley

#34 Post by chaos » Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:31 pm

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chaos
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Re: James Foley

#35 Post by chaos » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:57 pm

Dear God.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... rned-alive

ISIS Video Shows Jordanian Pilot Being Burned Alive
FEBRUARY 03, 201512:31 PM ET
KRISHNADEV CALAMUR

Raad Adayleh/AP
Updated at 1:35 p.m. ET

A video from the self-declared Islamic State militant group shows Jordanian pilot Lt. Muath al-Kaseasbeh, who had been held by the group since his capture in December, being burned alive.

Reporter Alison Meuse tells our Newscast unit about the video. Please note that the description is graphic. Meuse says:

"The video begins with videos of Jordan's king meeting with President Obama and pledging his country's support in the fight against the Islamic State. The video paints the Arab monarchy as a puppet of the West and an enemy of Muslims. A montage of newscasts announce the Jordanian pilot's capture when his F-16 crashed in northern Syria. Then the scene changes. We see First Lt. Muath al-Kaseasbeh walking in an orange jumpsuit past a firing squad. He is put inside a metal cage. In slow motion, one of the masked men lights a fuse that engulfs his body in flames. We hear the pilot's tormented screams as Islamic chants play in the background. Eventually, his blackened body kneels, seemingly lifeless. A plow buries the cage in rubble."

Jordan's state television confirmed the death, it also said that Kaseasbeh was killed Jan. 3 – one month ago. In a statement read on Jordanian TV, Mamdouh al-Ameri, a spokesman for the Jordanian armed forces, vowed "punishment and revenge" for Kaseasbeh's killing.

State TV also reported that King Abdullah, who is visiting Washington, will cut short his trip to return home. Earlier today, the U.S. pledged to nearly double – pending congressional approval — aid to Jordan from $600 million to $1 billion.

Kaseasbeh's fate was unclear until today. As recently as Jan. 29, Jordan had sought a proof of life for the pilot, saying it was willing to trade Kaseasbeh, 26, for Sajida al-Rishawi, an Iraqi woman who had been sentenced to death for her role in a deadly attack in 2005 on a hotel in Amman. The Islamic State had demanded her release before sunset on that day.

Kaseasbeh was captured after his F-16 fighter jet went down over northern Syria, where he was part of the U.S.-led effort against the Islamic State. His capture led to questions in Jordan over why the country was part of the operation against the militant group.

Today's video was released just days after the Islamic State released a video showing the beheading of Kenji Goto, a Japanese journalist. Another Japanese hostage, Haruna Yukawa, was killed last month.

President Obama said the video was "just one more indication of viciousness and barbarity" of the Islamic State.

A statement from Bernadette Meehan, a spokeswoman for the National Security Council, said they are working to confirm the video's authenticity, but called the events the video purportedly depict "murder."

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Re: James Foley

#36 Post by chaos » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:20 pm

And Jordan responds:
http://news.yahoo.com/jordan-execute-fe ... 36008.html

Jordan to execute female would-be bomber at dawn
AFP 34 minutes ago

Jordan will execute Wednesday an Iraqi woman on death row over a failed bombing after having vowed to avenge the murder of a Jordanian pilot by Islamic State jihadists, an official said.

"The sentence of death pending on... Iraqi Sajida al-Rishawi will be carried out at dawn," the security official said on Tuesday, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Rishawi, the would-be suicide bomber, was condemned to death for her participation in deadly attacks in Amman in 2005, and IS had offered to spare the life of the Jordanian fighter pilot, Lieutenant Maaz al-Kassasbeh, if she were released.

"Jordan's response will be earth-shattering," Information Minister Mohammed Momani said earlier on television, while the army and government vowed to avenge the pilot's murder.


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Hype
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Re: James Foley

#37 Post by Hype » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:22 pm

I don't get it. Does killing killers who already or ... would have... killed do anything?

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chaos
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Re: James Foley

#38 Post by chaos » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:24 pm

I just hope they don't burn her alive and video tape it.

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Pandemonium
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Re: James Foley

#39 Post by Pandemonium » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:50 pm

chaos wrote:I just hope they don't burn her alive and video tape it.
Nah, they're progressive. They hang 'em.

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Bandit72
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Re: James Foley

#40 Post by Bandit72 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:28 pm

I can't believe Fox News are showing it/ have embedded it on their web site.

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Re: James Foley

#41 Post by Pandemonium » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:37 pm

Bandit72 wrote:I can't believe Fox News are showing it/ have embedded it on their web site.
Fox has the Jordanian pilot burning video or the execution of the two ISIS terrorists?

(Yes I know I could just go look, but I refuse to patronize Fox News)

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Re: James Foley

#42 Post by Bandit72 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:15 am

The execution of the Jordanian pilot. Surely this meets ISIS approval. Won't be too long before there are soldiers back on the ground.

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Pandemonium
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Re: James Foley

#43 Post by Pandemonium » Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:22 am

Bandit72 wrote:The execution of the Jordanian pilot. Surely this meets ISIS approval. Won't be too long before there are soldiers back on the ground.
What will push a lot of people over the edge is the undoubtedly horrific method they'll torture and execute the female American aid worker they've been holding captive for several months now.

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Bandit72
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Re: James Foley

#44 Post by Bandit72 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:43 am

Pandemonium wrote:
Bandit72 wrote:The execution of the Jordanian pilot. Surely this meets ISIS approval. Won't be too long before there are soldiers back on the ground.
What will push a lot of people over the edge is the undoubtedly horrific method they'll torture and execute the female American aid worker they've been holding captive for several months now.
They're saying she's been killed in the recent Jordanian offensive. We don't know if this is true or not but seems like the usual tactic to try and divide public opinion of heavy air strikes. And of course, no fighters were killed :eyes:

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