Michael Brown

[kv]

bloods and crips standing together to prevent further looting

[Essence_Smith]

also a lot of facts are coming out today about the case...it seems like this guy should have been shot just not finished off...police aren't trained to shoot and maim it's shoot and kill...that's the training that protects them the most...it's not a perfect system but the police are the ones in charge to protect us...they put their lives on the line...people seem quick to make it a white black thing when it's a scared dude fighting a criminal...he clearly let his training and emotions take over dumping that many rounds into the kid which sucks for everyone involved

With all respect due, fuck that...this is ALL about a white black thing and not because I want it to be, it's because a lot of white folks are scared of black folks...the scary black guy thing has been around for centuries and as much respect as I have for what the police have to deal with, this shit happens TOO OFTEN for anyone to be making an attempt to downplay the role race and the ideas people are rolling around with in their heads on all sides of the equation. I don't doubt that fear plays into it but to be dismissive of the role race plays in this on any level is sticking your head in the sand. This doesn't happen to white kids in similar situations, it happens to black kids whether they're doing anything wrong or not and it's not right, and it's been happening for way too long...the police have MANY ways to subdue folks, but like a lot of people they haven't been able to conquer certain prejudices...shit there's are organizations for black officers WITHIN police departments across the country because even internally they recognize there's an imbalance and a need to have a way to keep themselves honest.

All that being said MANY of my friends and even a few former band mates of mine are police officers...I've heard a lot of stories about the shit they have to deal with and what I have personally witnessed is that the job wears on most and some end up looking at particular groups of people in a fucked up way because they're dealing with some of the worst society has to offer. I think it should be mandatory for cops to have some sort of training that will help them process the long term stuff over time...I've been driving with a few cop buddies that will be off duty and looking at a group of kids going "look at those scumbags"and I'm like really? I'm sorry for ranting but this shit happens too often to black kids and I don't care what color the cop is, if you've never been a black kid then you won't understand the stigma...it's bad enough to live with a stigma and even worse to die because of it and to have people try to say it's a game or a "card" being played...

[kv]

we don't know anything for certain...neither of us were there

things i do know for certain is more whites are shot by police then blacks...because well there are more whites duh...but there is a strong relation to crime record and being shot by police ...as well as resisting arrest....and people with bad crime records tend to be poor...white and black...this is one of many roots to the issue of police shootings...other roots i have no doubt include fear, racism, class-ism, our police training ( la sherrifs are trained in jails, like i'm sure many police are....creates a very "us them vibe") it's a much greater problem then some white cops don't like black people

imho of course


you touch a good point though....that police may need some kind of look as far as, not ptsd but something along the lines...after years of being a cop you must get massively desensitized...maybe police need off periods or treatment of some sort...there will be good that comes from this...look how far we have come...can't wait to see this place in another 50 years when most people have brown kids and race becomes more of an afterthought...because this melting pot is gonna be brown...not white or black

[creep]

this woman cnn reporter just got nailed in the head with a rock.

https://vine.co/v/O1H6zgYnvEn

[Hype]

we don't know anything for certain...neither of us were there

things i do know for certain is more whites are shot by police then blacks...because well there are more whites duh...but there is a strong relation to crime record and being shot by police ...as well as resisting arrest....and people with bad crime records tend to be poor...white and black...this is one of many roots to the issue of police shootings...other roots i have no doubt include fear, racism, class-ism, our police training ( la sherrifs are trained in jails, like i'm sure many police are....creates a very "us them vibe") it's a much greater problem then some white cops don't like black people

imho of course


you touch a good point though....that police may need some kind of look as far as, not ptsd but something along the lines...after years of being a cop you must get massively desensitized...maybe police need off periods or treatment of some sort...there will be good that comes from this...look how far we have come...can't wait to see this place in another 50 years when most people have brown kids and race becomes more of an afterthought...because this melting pot is gonna be brown...not white or black

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... -black-men

Previous attempts to analyze racial bias in police shootings have arrived at similar conclusions. In 2007, ColorLines and the Chicago Reporter investigated fatal police shootings in 10 major cities, and found that there were a disproportionately high number of African Americans among police shooting victims in every one, particularly in New York, San Diego, and Las Vegas.

[Artemis]

can't wait to see this place in another 50 years when most people have brown kids and race becomes more of an afterthought...because this melting pot is gonna be brown...not white or black

not to change the subject o anything but this made me think of Russell Peters.

[Pandemonium]

For the armchair jury member(s) here who think they know everything about this case and how the "justice system" got it wrong, read through the evidence:

http://apps.stlpublicradio.org/ferguson ... dence.html

[Hype]

For the armchair jury member(s) here who think they know everything about this case and how the "justice system" got it wrong, read through the evidence:

http://apps.stlpublicradio.org/ferguson ... dence.html

There's too much there. What kind of evidence would justify lethal force in this case?

[Pandemonium]

For the armchair jury member(s) here who think they know everything about this case and how the "justice system" got it wrong, read through the evidence:

http://apps.stlpublicradio.org/ferguson ... dence.html

There's too much there. What kind of evidence would justify lethal force in this case?

Why don't you acquaint yourself with the facts before mouthing off, dumbass.

[kv]

why in riots when people burn stuff down and the firemen show up to prevent further damage to surrounding properties do they always get shot at?...fuck man no bad stories filling the news about how fucked up firemen are

[Hype]

For the armchair jury member(s) here who think they know everything about this case and how the "justice system" got it wrong, read through the evidence:

http://apps.stlpublicradio.org/ferguson ... dence.html

There's too much there. What kind of evidence would justify lethal force in this case?

Why don't you acquaint yourself with the facts before mouthing off, dumbass.

That's an odd response...

[kv]

i just read a lot of the witness statements and other evidence released today...almost all of it saying he was fighting in the car with the cop till a shot rang out then ran away...and turned back and when he stopped the officer didn't shoot...but the times he came forward is when the cop shot...and cop was heard yelling "stop" and "get down" repeatedly...autopsy showed zero wounds they could say for sure came from his back...


the cop was punched in the face multiple times with visible swelling and the kid was shot in the hand within inches of the gun inside the car (the cop claims there was a struggle for his gun...almost all accounts who saw the incident at the car stage claimed some form of struggle)...he didn't respond to the cops commands to stop or get on the ground after already being shot and continued towards the cop...and was killed....murdered...homicide...

the shot to the top of his head appears to be as he is falling forward to the ground during the cops final volley of rounds...not when he was on the ground or knees as i've heard said...even the "he had his hands up" deal is mentioned as something he did while looking for wounds to his side...which he had (i have a personal hunch that after he turned around he reached for his rib wound while staggering to the cop...the cop saw him reaching and finished him...just seems to line up with everything)

there is no way they could indict the cop for that

please take the time and read for yourself because the media is screwing the pooch on this as it looks like justifiable homicide to me....don't fight with cops don't get shot

[SR]

That is a lot to sort. Can anyone direct me to the particular/relevant files?

[Hype]

That is a lot to sort. Can anyone direct me to the particular/relevant files?

Maybe, but first Pandemonium should call you a dumbass for asking a sensible question.

[SR]

That's ok. I've been called worse.....but if I had spent the time I'd gladly post the files.

I actually am going through this. What I am not hearing about is where the other kid was. I think that's a really important point as a taser would be a less than optimal option if the cop felt that he too was a threat.

:edit: come to think of it those who are sympathetic to cops must think Im a dumbass......my feelings on police have been liberally represented here.

[Essence_Smith]

Some of you guys tend to lose the point...Michael Brown whether this particular situation was a "justifiable" homicide or not is one person in a LONG ass line of black men who've managed to get killed by police while unarmed... we have two cases currently going on in NY, one in which a rookie cop's gun "accidentally" went off on a stairwell in a housing project, when regulation states he should have had the gun holstered...bottom line as I said before as much as people want to look at the "facts" and come to the defense of the police and say it's not about race, it happens far far too often. We had a black woman killed because her car broke down and she knocked the wrong person's door for help...kids coming home from the corner store, people reaching for ID getting killed...it goes on and on and on and you guys are far too intelligent to not know that something is clearly wrong here. Why are people so scared of unarmed black folks? Why are black people so mad at the police? There's always a bigger situation behind everything like this in America and I think people need to look at not just this particular situation, but the climate in America that allows it to happen so often with NO repercussions for people law enforcement.

[SR]

Grand Jury Volume 17 has an eyewitness account that details the friends activity and the shooting from beginning till end. Additionally, it details the witnesses personal dealings with the Ferguson police that will establish a culture of abuse, or depending upon your personal views, a bias against the police dept.

From this witness, it was a bad kill.

[Hype]

I read a bunch of those files, but I'm not sure any of it implies justifiable homicide. I think at the very least it indicates a failure of training.

As a teenager, I've been told to get out of the street by police before (usually late at night), and I did. But I imagine if I were mentally ill, or drunk, or on drugs, or just a different kind of person, I might have become belligerent, though almost certainly not a serious threat to the officer. So I'm just not sure how you go from the admittedly stupid struggle with the car door and the weapon "becoming unholstered" to a shot being fired in the car, to the cop getting out and shooting the guy multiple times. I can't imagine that happening to me even if I acted belligerently.

[SR]

Some of you guys tend to lose the point...Michael Brown whether this particular situation was a "justifiable" homicide or not is one person in a LONG ass line of black men who've managed to get killed by police while unarmed... we have two cases currently going on in NY, one in which a rookie cop's gun "accidentally" went off on a stairwell in a housing project, when regulation states he should have had the gun holstered...bottom line as I said before as much as people want to look at the "facts" and come to the defense of the police and say it's not about race, it happens far far too often. We had a black woman killed because her car broke down and she knocked the wrong person's door for help...kids coming home from the corner store, people reaching for ID getting killed...it goes on and on and on and you guys are far too intelligent to not know that something is clearly wrong here. Why are people so scared of unarmed black folks? Why are black people so mad at the police? There's always a bigger situation behind everything like this in America and I think people need to look at not just this particular situation, but the climate in America that allows it to happen so often with NO repercussions for people law enforcement.

I wonder if you understand just how condescending this is, not to mention irrational. The pre-existing institutionalized racism that allows for these atrocities you detail should have absolutely nothing to do with evaluating each case individually. That would be an injustice to the officers in any individual case.....this one being the MB case. This thread isn't addressing what you say is the "point we are missing". It's addressing the Michael Brown shooting.

[SR]

I read a bunch of those files, but I'm not sure any of it implies justifiable homicide. I think at the very least it indicates a failure of training.

As a teenager, I've been told to get out of the street by police before (usually late at night), and I did. But I imagine if I were mentally ill, or drunk, or on drugs, or just a different kind of person, I might have become belligerent, though almost certainly not a serious threat to the officer. So I'm just not sure how you go from the admittedly stupid struggle with the car door and the weapon "becoming unholstered" to a shot being fired in the car, to the cop getting out and shooting the guy multiple times. I can't imagine that happening to me even if I acted belligerently.

I think it demonstrates a fulfillment of the training officers receive. Still sorting, but at this point I still see this as a bad kill and an indictment of the training protocols that surround the use of lethal force.

[Essence_Smith]

I must admit to some degree of frustration having to explain to people how difficult it is to deal with cops ANYWHERE as a black man...personally I've usually been dealt with in a respectful way which I attribute to my own personal regard for them and knowing that you usually have to show them basic respect to get ANY back. But I've come across a lot of dicks too and I can only imagine how they deal with people who may not have that basic regard for them that I do...even my wife gives me the "well if black guys didn't walk around with hoodies on, etc" type of vibe and I'm pretty upset when I see people trying to use court paper work, etc to justify a poorly trained or "scared" cops actions in these cases...I worked for the DA in Brooklyn and saw MANY criminal cases called...files get lost, misplaced, etc...paper work can be doctored, witnesses change their tune and the system isn't perfect...all that aside police in America have a particular tradition of how they handle black folks and just because they aren't pulling out firehoses and dogs doesn't mean we're that far away from that or disrespect from them in general doesn't exist...white people generally are handled a lot differently and even if you LA guys have had your run-ins with that lot imagine if you look like a "gang banger"...there are a lot of Chip's out there...

[Hype]

I read a bunch of those files, but I'm not sure any of it implies justifiable homicide. I think at the very least it indicates a failure of training.

As a teenager, I've been told to get out of the street by police before (usually late at night), and I did. But I imagine if I were mentally ill, or drunk, or on drugs, or just a different kind of person, I might have become belligerent, though almost certainly not a serious threat to the officer. So I'm just not sure how you go from the admittedly stupid struggle with the car door and the weapon "becoming unholstered" to a shot being fired in the car, to the cop getting out and shooting the guy multiple times. I can't imagine that happening to me even if I acted belligerently.

I think it demonstrates a fulfillment of the training officers receive.
Still sorting, but at this point I still see this as a bad kill and an indictment of the training protocols that surround the use of lethal force.

I just meant a failure at the outset... getting into a fight over opening a car door is dumb. How hard is it to put the car in drive, hit the gas, close the window, then get out and deal with the guy?

[Hype]

even my wife gives me the "well if black guys didn't walk around with hoodies on, etc" type of vibe

So I get to wear my hoodies and you don't. Great. Totally fair.

[SR]

I must admit to some degree of frustration having to explain to people how difficult it is to deal with cops ANYWHERE as a black man...personally I've usually been dealt with in a respectful way which I attribute to my own personal regard for them and knowing that you usually have to show them basic respect to get ANY back. But I've come across a lot of dicks too and I can only imagine how they deal with people who may not have that basic regard for them that I do...even my wife gives me the "well if black guys didn't walk around with hoodies on, etc" type of vibe and I'm pretty upset when I see people trying to use court paper work, etc to justify a poorly trained or "scared" cops actions in these cases...I worked for the DA in Brooklyn and saw MANY criminal cases called...files get lost, misplaced, etc...paper work can be doctored, witnesses change their tune and the system isn't perfect...all that aside police in America have a particular tradition of how they handle black folks and just because they aren't pulling out firehoses and dogs doesn't mean we're that far away from that or disrespect from them in general doesn't exist...white people generally are handled a lot differently and even if you LA guys have had your run-ins with that lot imagine if you look like a "gang banger"...there are a lot of Chip's out there...

I don't dispute any of that. I am just as skeptical about the LAPD as anyone in South Central or Compton, if not more.

[SR]

I read a bunch of those files, but I'm not sure any of it implies justifiable homicide. I think at the very least it indicates a failure of training.

As a teenager, I've been told to get out of the street by police before (usually late at night), and I did. But I imagine if I were mentally ill, or drunk, or on drugs, or just a different kind of person, I might have become belligerent, though almost certainly not a serious threat to the officer. So I'm just not sure how you go from the admittedly stupid struggle with the car door and the weapon "becoming unholstered" to a shot being fired in the car, to the cop getting out and shooting the guy multiple times. I can't imagine that happening to me even if I acted belligerently.

I think it demonstrates a fulfillment of the training officers receive.
Still sorting, but at this point I still see this as a bad kill and an indictment of the training protocols that surround the use of lethal force.

I just meant a failure at the outset... getting into a fight over opening a car door is dumb. How hard is it to put the car in drive, hit the gas, close the window, then get out and deal with the guy?

In this case (and I think most), that is not an option. Remember, this cop had identified them as suspects in a robbery. He had called for back up in the matter. These kids needed to be apprehended.