Do you believe in White Privilege?

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Essence_Smith
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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#41 Post by Essence_Smith » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:48 pm

tvrec wrote:this (see above) is what I meant earlier when I said I should avoid this thread.
My point in bringing these kinds of issues up is to get people to think about things they may not think about on a day to day basis...I've learned things from some of the people that post here, and if its at the risk of someone saying something I or someone else may not be 100% comfortable with its fine...if I got them to just think for a moment then I feel ok...if we have an exchange and don't see eye to eye, its still ok...its all about the conversation being had...

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#42 Post by Essence_Smith » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:56 pm

LJF wrote:
Essence_Smith wrote:Fanon is the truth... :nod:

I think the "acting white" phenomenon is still something that leaves a funny taste in my mouth...I'm 100% with who I am, how I speak, etc but to hear people say "oh you're not really black", etc seems beyond silly to me...I tended to gravitate towards people who simply accepted me as I was regardless of their background and my life is better for it. I was never afraid what kids thought in junior high when I listened to GnR even though Axl was supposed to be racist...I even had a white kid (who hung out with nothing but black kids) call me an Oreo and that didn't mess with me... :hehe:
I refused to be a stereotype either way...so when I go to the projects they say I'm "halfway hood"...i'm fine with that...

I never understood why people say things like that. Like the reporter from I think ESPN that said he didn't like RGIII because he wasn't black enough. What does that even mean? People complain about stereotypes, but when someone doesn't meet or act that stereotype they aren't black enough or whatever race or nationality. To me that makes no fucking sense.
At the end of the day, everyone has certain stereotypes in their heads imo because it helps some people to place people into categories they can be comfortable with...I think its silly as fuck, but so be it. I have done my best to avoid fitting into people's ideas of how I should be which includes the token black guy thing, which I've even been called here...I don't go to parties where there's too many of one kind of people, etc...I like being in mixed crowds like how I grew up...even my college band was an irish guy, a puerto rican, me and a chinese guy... :hehe:

I think a lot of black people are painfully aware of how we are perceived and its a lot to deal with...another good example of something a lot of white people don't have to worry about...you can just be YOURSELF and not have to worry for a second how people are looking at you... or viewing you with an assumption that you're SUPPOSED to act a particular way because of your skin color...

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#43 Post by Hype » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:55 pm

Some of it comes down to trying to establish an authentic identity.

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#44 Post by Essence_Smith » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:35 am

I haven't actually read this in a while but remember someone else mentioning it in this thread:

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html
Daily effects of white privilege

I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#45 Post by Essence_Smith » Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:44 pm

Dear white racists and your fragile fee-fees:
Relax, I'm white, too. Look, I can do the secret handshake and nudge-nudge, wink-wink. Lemme whitesplain something to you, fellow white men: no one buys your bullshit.
That's because your bullshit runs like this: For historically- and presently-oppressed black people to be treated decently, they must carefully avoid doing anything that could be remotely twisted into behaving like a white racist, even if you're squinting and looking at it from five hundred meters away in a thick fog. Because that would be racist, and therefore hypocritical, and if that's the case, they deserve to continue to be oppressed.

Here's the thing you thick-headed assholes totally fail to get: NO ONE DESERVES TO BE OPPRESSED, PERIOD. You can talk all you want about how it's okay for black people to be mistreated if--- but get this, there is no "if". It's not okay, ever. That's why we call it mistreatment. Your error is to think that it's ever justified, and your active misdeed is to constantly search for a justification. Black people, collectively, are not guilty of anything. In fact, a basic principle of civil society is that we reject the notion of collective guilt. Some individual black people, like individual white people, have done bad things, and in those cases, may deserve judicial punishments. But even those people don't deserve mistreatment from some random white guy on the street. And black people in general don't owe anyone anything as a prerequisite for being treated decently. No one does.

Now I know there are a bunch of you in the back of the room waving your hand and getting ready to launch the argument that it's racist to complain about white privilege. No, it is not. Complaining about white privilege is not the same as assigning collective guilt to white people. White privilege is a pervasive feature of our society and our legal system. It's hard to see if you're white (and you're not looking or actively trying not to look), but it is real, it is powerfully destructive, and if global warming had the kind of statistical support that evidence of white privilege has, Bill O'Reilly would be haranguing FOX News viewers to install solar panels.

And here's the subtle point that you folks either can't or won't grasp. White privilege is especially the responsibility of white people to fix, not because we're all racist schlubs like you are, but because white privilege itself means that we're the ones who have the power to change it. Black people don't have that power, again because of white privilege, and not because they aren't sufficiently careful in the way they phrase their complaints about being mistreated. It's our problem and our responsibility as white people to fix not because whites are collectively guilty, but because it is the responsibility of ALL PEOPLE to fight for decent treatment for ALL PEOPLE. It just happens that, because of our shithead ancestors and a helping handful of historical accident, we white people are the ones who can do something about it. When the finger on the trigger is white, it's pointless to ask a black guy to lower the gun.

And quite frankly, given all the shit that our black fellow citizens have put up with, and all the shit they have to deal with every. fucking. day., if some of them lose their tempers and say things that aren't carefully calibrated to kiss your privileged, hypersensitive asses, well, is that actually surprising? You lose your minds when black people just complain verbally about being kicked. Imagine how tough it would be for you to keep your cool if someone was actually doing something to you instead of just talking.

Finally, yes, I know this is pointless. You want to be offended to fluff your fragile egos, and you want black people to please shut the fuck up and stop harshing your mellow. I hate to break it to you, but as long as people are being murdered by the state, given draconian sentences for crimes that in many cases they haven't even committed, and being held in poverty and privation and a constant state of fear, those of us who actually give a shit about our fellow citizens are going, at the very least, to make some noise about it.
In the meantime, if you can't be bothered to do your duty as an American to protect your fellow Americans with the considerable power at your disposal, at least shut the fuck up and stop making an ass of yourself.
Regards,
Your fellow privileged white guy

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#46 Post by tvrec » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:50 pm

This clip is not so much about racial dynamics in the usa, per se, and might fit better in the ISIS thread, but, as a broad yet brief critique of white, western, male privilege, Aslan doesn't hold back.


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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#47 Post by Hype » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:18 pm

I agree with some of what he says, but he comes across far too smarmy (actually, Bill Maher does that to me too). His claims about Turkey and Indonesia and Malaysia are, while *relatively* speaking, true, extremely misleading. Turkey has a major problem with honour killings (especially in rural areas), and has had to deal with the recent rise of Islamism in its democratically elected government (which the secular military had tried to prevent several times before). Effectively, his trotting out of Turkey as a so-called "secular" Islamic state undermines his point, since while yeah, it's pretty obvious to anyone with brains that Muslims CAN be secular (just like any other religious person -- that's the whole point of liberal pluralism), the prevalence of both Wahhabism and poverty and tribal/folk beliefs mixed with religious pseudo-authority and fervor leads to the sort of difficulties maintaining a secular state that we do, in fact, see in places that are ostensibly secular, like Turkey (and in fact, like Afghanistan prior to the USSR invasion in the 70s). Both sides in that debate lack sufficient nuance and accuracy. And they lack it while being smarmy as fuck. Ugh.

Another thing: many of those countries were, a long long time ago, very multicultural, and involved a lot of international traffic (Dubai and a few other places are exceptions because they still are), but e.g., Turkey is extremely monocultural. I met this Turkish guy who came to my dept to study multiculturalism and he found it really hard to believe how everyone he met had parents from different countries, and most not even Canada... this just isn't how people think in Turkey... everyone is either Turkish all the way back or not Turkish... :neutral: So that's another issue... It's a kind of "white privilege" to think everyone else is already able to see the world the way we do because of historical accidents that have led to affluence and power.

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#48 Post by Essence_Smith » Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:31 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:Another thing: many of those countries were, a long long time ago, very multicultural, and involved a lot of international traffic (Dubai and a few other places are exceptions because they still are), but e.g., Turkey is extremely monocultural. I met this Turkish guy who came to my dept to study multiculturalism and he found it really hard to believe how everyone he met had parents from different countries, and most not even Canada... this just isn't how people think in Turkey... everyone is either Turkish all the way back or not Turkish... :neutral: So that's another issue... It's a kind of "white privilege" to think everyone else is already able to see the world the way we do because of historical accidents that have led to affluence and power.
I know I've said it a million times, but one reason I love NY so much is because you can pretty much come in contact with people from everywhere. I went to school with a LOT of Turkish kids and they definitely struck me as a group that were friendly enough to kinda kick with with, but the expectation was that they date and marry someone from their country. I remember asking a friend why this was the case and he didn't really have an answer because he was attracted to black women but wouldn't even talk to them because of that... :lol:

It's funny because as I mentioned earlier in the thread I like to bring these issues up not to stir shit up as much as to get the exchange going...because believe it or not we can all benefit from it. I don't have a problem with the fact that the concept definitely exists but I wish more people would be honest with themselves about and take a look at how the small things add up to something big.

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#49 Post by perkana » Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:51 pm

I do, me being Mexican who looks like an Arab to some (even in my own country I get treated as a terrorist so the rest of the people on the plane feel safe). It sucks...
Talking about minorities, yes, we do have some advantages. For example, DAAD (Deutscher Akademischer Austausch Dienst - German Academic Exchange Service) gives scholarships to very particular groups, for example, say someone like me: female Mexican Engineer. I could apply for one and would get it. I don't feel it's like a gift, a lot of people have worked their asses off to have the degree they want. So I see it more as a very well deserved reward :noclue:

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#50 Post by perkana » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:15 am

Hobbs' cousin had been living as white, far away in California, since she'd graduated from high school. This was at the insistence of her mother."She was black, but she looked white," Hobbs said. "And her mother decided it was in her best interest to move far away from Chicago, to Los Angeles, and to assume the life of a white woman.""Her mother really felt that this was the very best thing she could do for her daughter," Hobbs continued. "She felt this was a way to offer opportunities to her daughter that she wouldn't have living as a black woman on the South Side of Chicago."
Image
http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/201 ... e-america?

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#51 Post by Romeo » Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:03 am

Essence_Smith wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:Another thing: many of those countries were, a long long time ago, very multicultural, and involved a lot of international traffic (Dubai and a few other places are exceptions because they still are), but e.g., Turkey is extremely monocultural. I met this Turkish guy who came to my dept to study multiculturalism and he found it really hard to believe how everyone he met had parents from different countries, and most not even Canada... this just isn't how people think in Turkey... everyone is either Turkish all the way back or not Turkish... :neutral: So that's another issue... It's a kind of "white privilege" to think everyone else is already able to see the world the way we do because of historical accidents that have led to affluence and power.
I know I've said it a million times, but one reason I love NY so much is because you can pretty much come in contact with people from everywhere. I went to school with a LOT of Turkish kids and they definitely struck me as a group that were friendly enough to kinda kick with with, but the expectation was that they date and marry someone from their country. I remember asking a friend why this was the case and he didn't really have an answer because he was attracted to black women but wouldn't even talk to them because of that... :lol:

It's funny because as I mentioned earlier in the thread I like to bring these issues up not to stir shit up as much as to get the exchange going...because believe it or not we can all benefit from it. I don't have a problem with the fact that the concept definitely exists but I wish more people would be honest with themselves about and take a look at how the small things add up to something big.
That is no different from Sephardic Jews who will fool around with the Italian guys in their neighborhood of Midwood but can only marry another Sephardic Jew.

When my Grandparents married in 1922 a Jew and a Catholic were a no-no. An ITALIAN Catholic no less. My Grandfather had to convert to Judaism in order to marry her. He really didn't have a choice, they had already ran off and got married at City Hall and my Great Grandmother was LIVID. Had they kept that as their only marriage and didn't get married by a Rabbi, she would have considered her daughter dead (basically kick her out of the family). So he converted and they were married by a Rabbi.

As for white privilege.....absolutely. I don't get followed around by security in a dept store. But my friends of color do.

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#52 Post by Hype » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:24 am

Romeo wrote:
Essence_Smith wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:Another thing: many of those countries were, a long long time ago, very multicultural, and involved a lot of international traffic (Dubai and a few other places are exceptions because they still are), but e.g., Turkey is extremely monocultural. I met this Turkish guy who came to my dept to study multiculturalism and he found it really hard to believe how everyone he met had parents from different countries, and most not even Canada... this just isn't how people think in Turkey... everyone is either Turkish all the way back or not Turkish... :neutral: So that's another issue... It's a kind of "white privilege" to think everyone else is already able to see the world the way we do because of historical accidents that have led to affluence and power.
I know I've said it a million times, but one reason I love NY so much is because you can pretty much come in contact with people from everywhere. I went to school with a LOT of Turkish kids and they definitely struck me as a group that were friendly enough to kinda kick with with, but the expectation was that they date and marry someone from their country. I remember asking a friend why this was the case and he didn't really have an answer because he was attracted to black women but wouldn't even talk to them because of that... :lol:

It's funny because as I mentioned earlier in the thread I like to bring these issues up not to stir shit up as much as to get the exchange going...because believe it or not we can all benefit from it. I don't have a problem with the fact that the concept definitely exists but I wish more people would be honest with themselves about and take a look at how the small things add up to something big.
That is no different from Sephardic Jews who will fool around with the Italian guys in their neighborhood of Midwood but can only marry another Sephardic Jew.

When my Grandparents married in 1922 a Jew and a Catholic were a no-no. An ITALIAN Catholic no less. My Grandfather had to convert to Judaism in order to marry her. He really didn't have a choice, they had already ran off and got married at City Hall and my Great Grandmother was LIVID. Had they kept that as their only marriage and didn't get married by a Rabbi, she would have considered her daughter dead (basically kick her out of the family). So he converted and they were married by a Rabbi.

As for white privilege.....absolutely. I don't get followed around by security in a dept store. But my friends of color do.
Woah, Sephardim eh? I don't see a lot of them in the GTA where they're mostly Ashkenazi (that's what I am, in part). And yeah, my parents went through that exact thing... Still has repercussions to this day, but not converting was the right decision for my mom. Sometimes you don't want to be part of a community. (Like Spinoza, who was kicked out, and stayed kicked out, even though usually Jews were expected to beg to return.)

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#53 Post by perkana » Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:46 am

My brother married a non practicing catholic who wanted to be married by the church. My brother is an atheist, him and me have never even been baptized. So he was living in San Francisco then and they got a permission from an Irish priest. Basically, my sister-in-law got permission to marry a non-catholic by the church. They were married here in Mexico and the priest here was pissed off. He even made my brother receive comunion. But he has never had to convert.

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#54 Post by Hype » Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:51 am

There's a white privilege to not be pepper-sprayed in one's own house... http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/1 ... ents-home/

:confused:

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#55 Post by wally » Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:33 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:There's a white privilege to not be pepper-sprayed in one's own house... http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/1 ... ents-home/

:confused:
nope.

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#56 Post by Essence_Smith » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:07 pm

wally wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:There's a white privilege to not be pepper-sprayed in one's own house... http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/1 ... ents-home/

:confused:
nope.
This reminds me of a jewish kid I know who's a DJ...years ago he sent out this flyer email with a whole schtick about he and another white DJ having a "beef" which parodied all the hip hop beefs that go on...the best line "white on white violence affects dozens of people every year"... :lolol:

White kids are not 100% exempt from getting fucked up by police, etc, but it generally takes them a LOT more to get to "don't taze me bro" than it does for the average young person of color to get harassed...it's not for the same reasons and you're missing the point...willfully...

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#57 Post by Hype » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:31 pm

Yeah so that warrantless barging in.. was that because a neighbour reported a suspicious looking black dude to 911?

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#58 Post by wally » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:33 pm

Essence_Smith wrote:
White kids are not 100% exempt from getting fucked up by police, etc, but it generally takes them a LOT more to get to "don't taze me bro" than it does for the average young person of color to get harassed...it's not for the same reasons and you're missing the point...willfully...
dude it was a joke. smoke a bowl or some shit, you really need to lighten up (no pun intended).
I'm white, my daughter is black, I'm well aware of white privilege TYVM. :eyes:

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#59 Post by wally » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:34 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:Yeah so that warrantless barging in.. was that because a neighbour reported a suspicious looking black dude to 911?
no. it was because one of the dumbasses in the house called 911. no warrant needed.
Last edited by wally on Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#60 Post by Hype » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:35 pm

Don't tease me, bro. :neutral:

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#61 Post by Essence_Smith » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:47 pm

wally wrote:
Essence_Smith wrote:
White kids are not 100% exempt from getting fucked up by police, etc, but it generally takes them a LOT more to get to "don't taze me bro" than it does for the average young person of color to get harassed...it's not for the same reasons and you're missing the point...willfully...
dude it was a joke. smoke a bowl or some shit, you really need to lighten up (no pun intended).
I'm white, my daughter is black, I'm well aware of white privilege TYVM. :eyes:
This is where context gets lost on the internet...none of what I posted was angry or the least bit annoyed, I just thought we were talking past each other maybe...I didn't get the joke at all because I didn't make it too far into the clip...no need for any eye rolling here sir, I respect where you're coming from pretty much 99% of the time... :wave:

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#62 Post by Hype » Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:04 pm

I think someone shared this a long time ago on one of the boards, but it's worth bringing up again: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/u ... ndexrk.htm

Even black people implicitly associate blackness with badness. :neutral:
Your data suggest a strong automatic preference for European American children compared to African American children.
But I don't even prefer children. :nyrexall:
Last edited by Hype on Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#63 Post by wally » Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:07 pm

Essence_Smith wrote:
wally wrote:
Essence_Smith wrote:
it's not for the same reasons and you're missing the point...willfully...

that's the part i was referring to, no worries man, its all good. :cheers:

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Romeo
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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#64 Post by Romeo » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:59 am

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
Romeo wrote:
Essence_Smith wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:Another thing: many of those countries were, a long long time ago, very multicultural, and involved a lot of international traffic (Dubai and a few other places are exceptions because they still are), but e.g., Turkey is extremely monocultural. I met this Turkish guy who came to my dept to study multiculturalism and he found it really hard to believe how everyone he met had parents from different countries, and most not even Canada... this just isn't how people think in Turkey... everyone is either Turkish all the way back or not Turkish... :neutral: So that's another issue... It's a kind of "white privilege" to think everyone else is already able to see the world the way we do because of historical accidents that have led to affluence and power.
I know I've said it a million times, but one reason I love NY so much is because you can pretty much come in contact with people from everywhere. I went to school with a LOT of Turkish kids and they definitely struck me as a group that were friendly enough to kinda kick with with, but the expectation was that they date and marry someone from their country. I remember asking a friend why this was the case and he didn't really have an answer because he was attracted to black women but wouldn't even talk to them because of that... :lol:

It's funny because as I mentioned earlier in the thread I like to bring these issues up not to stir shit up as much as to get the exchange going...because believe it or not we can all benefit from it. I don't have a problem with the fact that the concept definitely exists but I wish more people would be honest with themselves about and take a look at how the small things add up to something big.
That is no different from Sephardic Jews who will fool around with the Italian guys in their neighborhood of Midwood but can only marry another Sephardic Jew.

When my Grandparents married in 1922 a Jew and a Catholic were a no-no. An ITALIAN Catholic no less. My Grandfather had to convert to Judaism in order to marry her. He really didn't have a choice, they had already ran off and got married at City Hall and my Great Grandmother was LIVID. Had they kept that as their only marriage and didn't get married by a Rabbi, she would have considered her daughter dead (basically kick her out of the family). So he converted and they were married by a Rabbi.

As for white privilege.....absolutely. I don't get followed around by security in a dept store. But my friends of color do.
Woah, Sephardim eh? I don't see a lot of them in the GTA where they're mostly Ashkenazi (that's what I am, in part). And yeah, my parents went through that exact thing... Still has repercussions to this day, but not converting was the right decision for my mom. Sometimes you don't want to be part of a community. (Like Spinoza, who was kicked out, and stayed kicked out, even though usually Jews were expected to beg to return.)
There is a section of Midwood Brooklyn that is mostly Sephardic. Though they are orthodox, they are orthodox "lite" meaning their daughters go to college and drive (mostly Porsche and Mercedes) and do wear wigs and modest clothing BUT the wigs are stylish (not plain) and the clothes designer.
This pisses the non-sephardic orthodox community off. So the local Rabbi sent out a flyer to EVERY HOUSE in the hood (Jewish or not) explaining more like emphasizing the "do's and don'ts". My ex lived on the border of Midwood in Bensonhurst, he got one even though he was Italian Catholic.

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Essence_Smith
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Re: Do you believe in White Privilege?

#65 Post by Essence_Smith » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:30 pm

ferguson vs pumpkinfest ...glad I didn't see this the wrong way...we hit the street when someone gets hurt and it's a whole different story, but hey, that's America for ya...

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