Bullying

[Artemis]

I'm not sure if this topic has ever come up before on ANR.

Anyway, this week a Canadian girl(15) committed suicide because she had been bullied for years. She posted a youtube too. :cona:


Do you guys think there is more bullying now than when we were younger or is there just more awareness about it??

Those of you with children, do you worry about your kids being bullied and do you discuss it with them?


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... arges.html

[Larry B.]

Firstly, many, many parents let their children live their lives on the Internet. Everything happens on the Internet. Since most kids 'hang out' on the Internet, if you don't you can be somewhat of an outcast, so it's tricky.

Secondly, many, many parents just don't give their kids enough affection.

These two elements lead to kids who seek attention and have access to a network connecting billions of people. They're bound to do stupid things.

From what I can see in that video, that girl was an attention whore. She was cute, she knew she could play around and get away with stuff.

I'm not saying I'm glad she's dead nor that bullying is alright. But she didn't kill herself because she was bullied, she killed herself because her family didn't provide her the support you need when you're being bullied nor the foundation of self-respect and reassurance you need in your childhood.

I think people are using the term 'bullying' waaaay too freely. If some kid tells your daughter she's fucking ugly one time, that's not bullying. That's the way kids are, how they create their groups, how they test their might, etc. If some kids pick on your daughter constantly and are plain vicious with her, that's bullying and something must be done. My point is, you can't expect your kids to go through school completely unharmed by anyone. That's just not a realistic expectation for a human's life.

[chaos]

Kids can be relentlessly cruel to each other. Today it seems as though there are more opportunities for bullies to do there thing, whereas before the advent of the internet (I am old ) kids did not have to contend with cyber-bullying in addition to being bullied in person. With regard to awareness, years ago it was almost as though being bullied was a rite of passage. Although some people may still think this way, this mindset seems to be changing. It may be due in part to some high-profile cases where kids committed suicide and the bullies were brought to court and/or sued (in the US). Obviously the effects vary based on the individual as well as his/her support system (or lack thereof), but it has been established that there are detrimental long term effects associated with having been bullied.

[chaos]

Here is her original video (without the guy talking):

Published on Sep 7, 2012 by TheSomebodytoknow
I'm struggling to stay in this world, because everything just touches me so deeply. I'm not doing this for attention. I'm doing this to be an inspiration and to show that I can be strong. I did things to myself to make pain go away, because I'd rather hurt myself then someone else. Haters are haters but please don't hate, although im sure I'll get them. I hope I can show you guys that everyone has a story, and everyones future will be bright one day, you just gotta pull through. I'm still here aren't I ?

-AmandaTodd

[Larry B.]

She's textbook.

Just as I was with my whole fake-self-killing dealie.

It's an Internet compensation for things lacking in real life.

[chaos]

I don't understand your comparison. She is dead.

She was only fifteen and crying out for help that she desperately needed. This is more than simply wanting attention.

What a tragedy.

[Larry B.]

She was only fifteen and crying out for help that she desperately needed. This is more than simply wanting attention.

Her dead can be sad indeed... a sad sign of what's happening to lots of kids today. It's a desperate need for attention.

My point is that bullying isn't the issue, at least not in this particular case. The issue is her constant need for attention and approval.

[chaos]

The bullying started when she was 12 and got progressively worse, both physically and psychologically, over the course of three years. She changed schools and the cyber stalker guy followed her and continued posting pictures of her online. Her new classmates harassed her. I am surprised you think the relentless harassment was not a factor with her decision. Consider her age, and the duration and intensity of the bullying.

From what I can see in that video, that girl was an attention whore. She was cute, she knew she could play around and get away with stuff.

This seems too harsh and you suggest she possesses a level of sophistication far above her years.

Do you think that she is an "attention whore" because she found an outlet and made a video expressing her torment, or is it because she was interested in one of her schoolmates? A schoolmate, who by the way, led her to believe he wanted to be her friend. Remember she has no friends at this point and she is going through the never-ending harassment alone.

[Hype]

As you could imagine, I experienced some pretty hardcore bullying. Luckily, I had and still have enough confidence in myself and the things I do care about, and enough other things in my life, to get past it without doing something as drastic as this girl. There are deep emotional scars, but that's fine. I rock what I do pretty fucking hard so the scars are just war wounds. Unfortunately, a lot of kids don't have that, and some of them also have a neurobiology that leaves them susceptible to impulsive decisions to end their life because sociopathic assholes also go to high school. I knew many (I happened to have social worker parents and so was attuned to their "frequency" as it were... knowing that they were the fucked up ones helped me get through it.)

At any rate, I don't think it's worse now. I think it's exactly the same as it ever was, except now there's more awareness, in various ways, even if there isn't yet a change in how institutions and parents deal with it.

[Larry B.]

As you could imagine, I experienced some pretty hardcore bullying. Luckily, I had and still have enough confidence in myself and the things I do care about, and enough other things in my life, to get past it without doing something as drastic as this girl.

This is what I'm talking about, Chaos.

I was never really bullied in school. When I was 10 and I changed schools, a few classmates started telling me I liked men, because I didn't like football. After three days of this, I told one of them to fuck off or I was gonna smash his head open. The bullying stopped there.

And even though I was never scared of going to school, I was in desperate need for attention and approval. Why? Basically, because nobody gave me confidence as a child. No display of affection, no congratulations for learning how to tie my shoes or whatever, no encouragement for any sort of hobby, etc. If I ever did something "good", I had to face the fact (i.e., lie) that my father had done better when he was my age. I was never told I was cute or had a nice smile. I was told that my chin was prominent and that my hands, bigger than what you cold expect, were those of a mongoloid. Even when I was older and learned to play drums, bass and guitar all by myself, nobody in my family ever told me I was good.

As a result, I was this guy with very good learning skills who had anorexia, suicidal tendencies and general social awkwardness.

When you are a kid, you need some stuff. You need to be told you're worth something, you need to be GIVEN confidence. After certain age you start dealing with your confidence yourself, but you need a foundation. You need to hear a sincere "Hey, well done!" from your parents. Otherwise, it's absolutely logical to look for approval showing your tits (and face) on a webcam, fucking lots of people as early in your life as you can, trying to be popular at all costs, etc.

What I like the most about sex is giving pleasure. Most of the time, I couldn't care less about whether I come or not. That's telling.

[Hype]

I don't think you can ever take your personal experience and use it to tell other people what they should do differently in their life to avoid this kind of bad outcome. We all share many things to some degree, but ability to deal with stress and pain is extremely subjective, based on genetics, family history, childhood, economic and social circumstances, intelligence, how many friends you have, etc. And even if many kids deal with bullying and get through it, x number of kids die every year for whatever reasons, and that needs to stop, however we can figure out how to make it stop. (And bullying wouldn't be okay even if no one died from it.)

[SR]

I went to dinner 2 weeks ago with my son and my wife at a local restaurant where I have known everyone for many years. We sat down and at the table adjacent is a man, sitting alone, slumped in the booth snickering with obvious agitation. My family orders and as we begin with chips and salsa when a tall, gaunt kid of about 15-16 enters and sits in the booth as far away from this man as possible. He too slumps and trys to make his ample frame disappear. He wrapped his arm around his midsection... essentially hugging himself. He had a very crude haircut and had a tepid demeanor and the color of someone who rarely sees the sun. The man lit into him.....the prices were too high....he was an asshole....he was selfish....the next time his mother asks what he'd like for dinner, he shouldn't be so fucking selfish....(repeat as naseum). The kid just kept repeating that they could leave, implored to leave. In response to his father, he was polished....he had this verbal dexterity that was horrifying....he was trying tomanage a bad situation that he was clearly used to but knew it could get much, much worse.

The mother came in and a few words were said, and she promptly left.

I was in tears....in my mind I was going to pay for the meal, or choke this cunt out, and hug the kiddo for eternity. I did nothing for fear of what would happen out of the publics eye. I asked some of the crew about the guy, and they said yes, he had been in before annd was always the same.

All I could think of was how the bullys at school have no idea what this awkward kid goes through at home. Tragic.

[Artemis]

Shortly after I posted this I joined a facebook group for my middle school/junior high(grades 7&8) and one of the first posts there was from a person looking for a woman who bullied me at the beginning of grade 7!!

I was shy, insecure, and really self-sconcious. She used to say mean things and intimidate me in the halls. She even made me give her my Lacoste shirt. I had to wear my t-shirt from gym class home. Anyway, I am tempted to say something like, "Oh yeah, that bitch. She used to bully me in grade 7." Should I do that?

As soon as I saw the name I knew exactly who it was and the image of her face came back in my memory. Those who have been bullied never forget the person who bullied them. I wonder if the bullies remember who they bullied.

[Essence_Smith]

I was told very early on that if a kid ever hit me or tried to bully me to hit em back, etc...The mentality being that if you let people take advantage and do nothing it'll continue in the future...I had a number of fights in grade school and junior high...most of em were kids that were WAY bigger than me and half the time they were surprised that I didn't back down, etc...high school was the same deal...5'7 me vs. 6'3 kid...and imo half the battle is the level of confidence instilled in you from a young age...NOT cockiness or overconfidence, but a healthy sense of self esteem...I think this is one of the things that people overlook in this conversation...bullying isn't new and will NOT go away...but if we steer people towards having a stronger sense of self and knowing their own personal worth they will be a bit less likely to tolerate the treatment...personally I think the whole "Lets Stop Bullying" deal I see on TV is kinda meh, but I guess a lot of young people need it...I'm only familiar with the traditional physical bullying, the whole internet thing is a newer deal...

[Hype]

I was told very early on that if a kid ever hit me or tried to bully me to hit em back, etc...The mentality being that if you let people take advantage and do nothing it'll continue in the future...I had a number of fights in grade school and junior high...most of em were kids that were WAY bigger than me and half the time they were surprised that I didn't back down, etc...high school was the same deal...5'7 me vs. 6'3 kid...and imo half the battle is the level of confidence instilled in you from a young age...NOT cockiness or overconfidence, but a healthy sense of self esteem...I think this is one of the things that people overlook in this conversation...bullying isn't new and will NOT go away...but if we steer people towards having a stronger sense of self and knowing their own personal worth they will be a bit less likely to tolerate the treatment...personally I think the whole "Lets Stop Bullying" deal I see on TV is kinda meh, but I guess a lot of young people need it...I'm only familiar with the traditional physical bullying, the whole internet thing is a newer deal...

You weren't the kid that killed himself, though. That's part of the problem. You think somehow, magically, we can make sure *those* kids have a stronger sense of self? The whole point is that they're the ones that don't.

Some bullying might just be harmless childhood fight-picking or teasing, but there are also children with psychopathic traits in every school, and administrators/teachers/parents ought to take that into account. Sometimes things escalate from harmless and under control into a dead kid way too easily.

[creep]

i was always taller than most in high school so i was never really bullied and fortunately i never bullied anyone. i saw a lot of bullying though...some pretty brutal. one in particular that i remember was there there was a pretty naive kid that really wanted to be accepted by the "cool" kids. people used to make fun of his big forehead and once a couple of kids made a mixture of piss and mayonnaise and said it was forehead shrinking cream and the kid would keep putting it on his forehead.

[Hype]

Oh, yeah, there are also stupid kids... probably they shouldn't end up dead either.

[Larry B.]

I did kinda bully a couple of classmates when I was 11 or 12. I remember one whose father was a shoemaker and for a couple of weeks I'd just tell him "ha ha, your dad's a fucking shoemaker and you're poor!" and stuff like that. One of my friends did it too, until this guy punched him in the face. My bullying stopped there too.

After that, I sometimes used to pick on random people for random reasons.

Later in life I've contacted a few of them and told them I was sorry. I was a mildly fucked up kid and had no regards for other people's feelings. I really couldn't have cared less for them. But thankfully, I started growing up. Now I can't see myself making fun of anybody. Lots of stuff has simply stopped being funny, like people tripping, someone falling, someone being laughed at, etc.

[Juana]

I remember one time that I was visiting some family and one of my cousins was getting bullied by some kids. We were all the same age and I guess he had been getting picked on a while. I told the kids to leave him alone and that he was with me. They tried to pick on me. I hit the leader of the group right in the middle of the nose and broke it. He was never messed with by those kids again.

But the problem was my cousins dad (one of my uncles) was a fucking drunk ass hole and never showed him any love. So he never had a chance to develop a sense of "self"

I have also noticed that some bullies lash out because its the only place they have control as they're bullied in their home lives.

[Pandemonium]

I'm pretty much in the same mindset as ES on this subject. Went through a period at the end of the 60's in grade school when my dad insisted I have a crew cut while most other "cool" kids were long haired rebel punks and thus I got fucked with a lot. Didn't help I was a science geek nerdlinger. Learned real quick how to fight and around 12 years old, I shot up to 5'11" and got really into sports, especially soccer and I never really got fucked with once I went into Jr High.

I do recall one neighbor kid in High School who shot himself with his dad's gun over being harassed at school so it's not like this sorta thing is new - it's now just through online social media there's more ways for asshole kids to harass and tragic results get more nationwide (or even worldwide) attention than just a local bit on the 3rd page of the local paper.

[SR]

I have never understood the phrase 'learned to fight'. Does mean learned to win? Learned to strategize? Learned to punch, kick, defend while engaged?

My motto is 'I fight to go home'. I've never been trained, but I've never been destroyed in a fight either.

I always 'fought' against bullys, but rarely had to defend them physically. I was respected enough in school that it really never came to that.

[Desri]

It's now just through online social media there's more ways for asshole kids to harass and tragic results get more nationwide (or even worldwide) attention than just a local bit on the 3rd page of the local paper.

This.

Based on her cards there is not much in her story that I didn't know people who went through, or experienced at around the same age, but that constant harassment she went through, even after changing schools multiple times, makes it soo much harder. I think once you leave your teens it's also really hard to remember how ridiculously emotional and naive you were, and how much stuff like topless pics completely undermined your confidence.

The only thing surprising in her video is that her parents appear (though obviously this may not be the case) to have made no effort to encourage her to leave social media. if I had a child who had tried to kill themselves over something like this I would probably make my house internet free, in spite of the fact I think it is normally extremely cruel to cut someone off from internet like that. In an instance like this it may be worthwhile.

It doesn't change how sad it is for the girl though. Especially considering her school mates probably didn't feel any real remorse afterwards.

[SR]

So, the Internet is a good resource for awareness and a tool for emotionally crippled people to reach out. Notwithstanding trying to curb teen suicides, hopefully douchebags might find another way to entertain themselves or better...marginalized themselves. I wouldn't mind bullys being pariahs.

[Essence_Smith]

I have never understood the phrase 'learned to fight'. Does mean learned to win? Learned to strategize? Learned to punch, kick, defend while engaged?

My motto is 'I fight to go home'. I've never been trained, but I've never been destroyed in a fight either.

I always 'fought' against bullys, but rarely had to defend them physically. I was respected enough in school that it really never came to that.

I think in school yeard terms it means very simply that you're willing to at least make an attempt to defend yourself...in my experience the true bullies usually go after the easiest prey...its ok for kids to run like hell too...worked for Forrest Gump...kidding, but standing up for oneself, period is key imo...I was able to talk my way our of about 10 kids jumping me once too...it doesn't always need to get physical...

[chaos]

These bullies must have pretty sad lives if this is how they amuse themselves.

http://www.inquisitr.com/363132/todding ... r-suicide/

Todding? Amanda Todd Still Being Harassed By Trolls After Suicide

Posted: October 14, 2012

Even after death, Amanda Todd cannot escape bullying. The young girl who took her life earlier this week after being tormented by bullies is still receiving messages of hate from internet trolls. One person even attempted to start a “Todding” meme.

A Facebook page has been set up in memory of Amanda Todd. The page is filled with messages of love and support to comfort Todd’s family and friends, but some people have also been writing terrible messages on her wall. According to The Star, one user posted an image showing the silhouette of a young girl hanging from a rope under the title ”Todding.”

Other users wrote messages telling people to stop feeling sorry for Amanda Todd. According to the trolls, the girl deserved to be bullied and the world is now better off without her. Bullies also posted the topless image that was used to torment her during her short life on her Facebook page.

The Inquisitr reported earlier that Canadian police were searching for the people who bullied Amanda Todd before her death. It looks like some of the trolls writing on her memorial page could also face legal issues.

One user writes:

“You want to bully. Go for it — but the RCMP has set up an account for information on people who continue to bully her and it will be my pleasure to report you.”

The Amanda Todd Facebook Memorial Page has even posted a message in its about section to discourage hateful comments.

The Facebook page writes:

“NO HATE ALLOWED. This page is to share the love, sorrow, and joy we have when we think of Amanda’s name. Stop bullying.”

RCMP Sergeant Peter Thiessen said that he was aware of the new Facebook messages. Thieseen said that internet bullying was a tricky issue but the RCMP was working to stop online bullying.

Thiessen said:

“It’s really a matter of those who are involved in it to realize the impact of what they are doing and that they are bordering on criminal acts … If we get that type of evidence then we would be quick to lay a charge. We are looking at what transpired in regards to Amanda, what transpired on social media, what transpired face to face, who may have had contact with her in that regard, and whether there’s evidence to support any sort of criminal charge to any person or persons who may have had an impact in the type of decision Amanda made.”

Do you think internet trolls should face legal charges for bullying?