Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby Hype » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:28 am

hokahey wrote:
mockbee wrote:I fear the dumb and am not all that keen on allowing ineptitude to rule in this country on any level when it comes to education and the environment. I realize people in smaller numbers can make better decisions sometimes, but when it comes to those two issues, the rallying cries I hear from those smaller groups are terrifying.


And this is what the argument eventually boils down to everytime I have this debate. Which disturbs me a little, because it's saying you're fine with an overreaching federal government functioning contrary to how they're supposed to because they're mandating things you agree with. What happens when they don't? They should not have that level of authority.

Adurentibus Spina wrote:You undermine efficiency and effectiveness of some kinds of public services if you allow private options, or don't make it single-payer. This is most pronounced in insurance and education.


Perhaps, but what happens when these options are governed by the largest possible beaurocracy as opposed to many smaller bodies? Are they still more efficient? Look at welfare. Is welfare best governed at the federal level or the local level? Who will better be able to have a read on the needs of each participant? Which level will best understand how to govern the program based on unique local conditions? The answer is obvious.


You might enjoy this, and it might help with thinking about the questions you ask (especially since the last thing you say is false, lol):
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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby Hokahey » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:40 am

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
hokahey wrote:
mockbee wrote:I fear the dumb and am not all that keen on allowing ineptitude to rule in this country on any level when it comes to education and the environment. I realize people in smaller numbers can make better decisions sometimes, but when it comes to those two issues, the rallying cries I hear from those smaller groups are terrifying.


And this is what the argument eventually boils down to everytime I have this debate. Which disturbs me a little, because it's saying you're fine with an overreaching federal government functioning contrary to how they're supposed to because they're mandating things you agree with. What happens when they don't? They should not have that level of authority.

Adurentibus Spina wrote:You undermine efficiency and effectiveness of some kinds of public services if you allow private options, or don't make it single-payer. This is most pronounced in insurance and education.


Perhaps, but what happens when these options are governed by the largest possible beaurocracy as opposed to many smaller bodies? Are they still more efficient? Look at welfare. Is welfare best governed at the federal level or the local level? Who will better be able to have a read on the needs of each participant? Which level will best understand how to govern the program based on unique local conditions? The answer is obvious.


You might enjoy this, and it might help with thinking about the questions you ask (especially since the last thing you say is false, lol):


I will never have the chance to watch that. Just being honest. If you care to summarize that'd be great.
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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby Hype » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:51 am

He talks about a lot of stuff... don't think I can offer a summary... it would be pages long. I think he's very fair to what happens to be true about economic conservatism, but he's pretty convincing with respect to "properly structured market conditions" (which is taken right out of Adam Smith, etc, anyway).

He also knocks down the notion of the government as a consumer, and thus of taxation as "bad". The first 10 minutes even, would be good to check out if you can... no worries though... I forget that other people aren't constantly stuck in front of a computer except at work where they can't really watch videos.

Maybe others will watch it and get something from it. :rockon:
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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby Hokahey » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:08 am

Adurentibus Spina wrote:He talks about a lot of stuff... don't think I can offer a summary... it would be pages long. I think he's very fair to what happens to be true about economic conservatism, but he's pretty convincing with respect to "properly structured market conditions" (which is taken right out of Adam Smith, etc, anyway).

He also knocks down the notion of the government as a consumer, and thus of taxation as "bad". The first 10 minutes even, would be good to check out if you can... no worries though... I forget that other people aren't constantly stuck in front of a computer except at work where they can't really watch videos.

Maybe others will watch it and get something from it. :rockon:


Interesting. Maybe I can watch it on my phone on a break or something. I rarely ever turn on my home PC.
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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby Hype » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:15 am

I've just found another INFOGRAPHIC type thing, and it would be interesting to compare the two:
http://www.good.is/post/how-many-minimu ... cent-life/
( http://nlihc.org/sites/default/files/oo ... -Map_0.pdf )

Image
Image

It looks sort of like the South just reports being very religious, regardless of cost of living, but elsewhere, cost of living seems inversely correlated to religiosity.
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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby farrellgirl99 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:33 am

Adurentibus Spina wrote:I've just found another INFOGRAPHIC type thing, and it would be interesting to compare the two:
http://www.good.is/post/how-many-minimu ... cent-life/
( http://nlihc.org/sites/default/files/oo ... -Map_0.pdf )

Image
Image

It looks sort of like the South just reports being very religious, regardless of cost of living, but elsewhere, cost of living seems inversely correlated to religiosity.


Holy shit, NY. I'd need to work 136 hours a week at my job :lol: :balls:
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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby Hype » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:53 pm

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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby Hokahey » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:34 am

Adurentibus Spina wrote:http://theoatmeal.com/comics/extremists
Image
Image
Image


Not exactly accurate.

http://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-peop ... -bad-name/
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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby Larry B. » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:17 am

hokahey wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:http://theoatmeal.com/comics/extremists
Image
Image
Image


Not exactly accurate.

http://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-peop ... -bad-name/


Image

I'm sure Stalin did what he did in the name of atheism.

You have to understand that atheism is not a religion. They don't work the same.
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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby Hype » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:49 pm

Stalin thought he was a God. Read his letters he wrote to his mom. :lol:

You have to understand, Hoka, that the epithet 'atheist' was historically a synonym for 'immoral', because morality was tied to piety (i.e., false piety, or the appearance of religiosity). This is just a fact. It's why Spinoza denied being an atheist, and why his critics often said things like: It's such a shame that such a nice person could be an atheist.

The philosophy was called an 'abomination' and worse, not because of the content, but because they thought it entailed moral nihilism.

This belief about atheism persists... the connection between a lack of faith in a higher power and amoralism or evil... it's just false, man.

As Stephen Weinberg once put it: good people do good things, and bad people do bad things, but for good people to do bad things, that takes religion.
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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby Larry B. » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:57 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:As Stephen Weinberg once put it: good people do good things, and bad people do bad things, but for good people to do bad things, that takes religion.


I liked that. Gonna use it ASAP.
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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby Hype » Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:17 pm

Larry B. wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:As Stephen Weinberg once put it: good people do good things, and bad people do bad things, but for good people to do bad things, that takes religion.


I liked that. Gonna use it ASAP.


I spelled his name wrong. But I really enjoyed these broadcasts years ago, and especially Weinberg's part: (Arthur Miller's is really great too)
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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby Artemis » Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:32 pm

For a country that seems to be so religious,I find it odd that Good Friday isn't a statutory holiday in the US.

Easter is the holiest of the Christian holidays.
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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby Hype » Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:51 pm

Artemis wrote:For a country that seems to be so religious,I find it odd that Good Friday isn't a statutory holiday in the US.

Easter is the holiest of the Christian holidays.


Yeah really. Without the resurrection, Christianity is just a bunch of hippie crap.
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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby Larry B. » Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:09 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
Larry B. wrote:
Adurentibus Spina wrote:As Stephen Weinberg once put it: good people do good things, and bad people do bad things, but for good people to do bad things, that takes religion.


I liked that. Gonna use it ASAP.


I spelled his name wrong. But I really enjoyed these broadcasts years ago, and especially Weinberg's part: (Arthur Miller's is really great too)


I didn't know Steven. I love Steven. I feel identified with Steven. All those sighs while describing why he doesn't like religion, while still looking calm and somewhat unnerved... I can see myself right there.

Thanks :nod:
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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby Hype » Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:22 pm

Cool, Larry. Weinberg won the Nobel Prize years ago. Dude's really smart. At one point he talks about the hope physicists have that there might be a better alternative to the Copenhagen interpretation of QM that I think is really interesting.

The other parts of "The Atheism Tapes" are worth watching too.

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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby kv » Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:57 pm

Adurentibus Spina wrote:
Artemis wrote:For a country that seems to be so religious,I find it odd that Good Friday isn't a statutory holiday in the US.

Easter is the holiest of the Christian holidays.


Yeah really. Without the resurrection, Christianity is just a bunch of hippie crap.

:lolol:
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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby Larry B. » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:14 am

Adurentibus Spina wrote:Cool, Larry. Weinberg won the Nobel Prize years ago. Dude's really smart. At one point he talks about the hope physicists have that there might be a better alternative to the Copenhagen interpretation of QM that I think is really interesting.

The other parts of "The Atheism Tapes" are worth watching too.


:thumb:
I found all parts in Demonoid. This should be a very good self-help exercise. Thanks again.
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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby Romeo » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:56 am

Artemis wrote:For a country that seems to be so religious,I find it odd that Good Friday isn't a statutory holiday in the US.

Easter is the holiest of the Christian holidays.


But then I have to take a personal day if I wish to partake in Yom Kippur which is a high holy day.
Personally I don't even think Christmas should be a Federal Holiday. You want to celebrate?? Take a personal day like I have to on Yom Kippur.
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Re: Gallup Poll: U.S. States by Religiosity

Postby creep » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:26 am

Romeo wrote:
Artemis wrote:For a country that seems to be so religious,I find it odd that Good Friday isn't a statutory holiday in the US.

Easter is the holiest of the Christian holidays.


But then I have to take a personal day if I wish to partake in Yom Kippur which is a high holy day.
Personally I don't even think Christmas should be a Federal Holiday. You want to celebrate?? Take a personal day like I have to on Yom Kippur.


i had good friday off. they call it "spring holiday".
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