Trayvon Martin

[Essence_Smith]

Suprised no one here's mentioned this...clearly a bad situation and I'm glad the Federal investigation is going to happen. Unfortunately not the first time something like this has happened...thoughts on this? The protests? How do people feel about race playing into this and how the media is playing with calling it a racial issue?

[chaos]

I think the 911 call emphasizes that the shooter chose to pursue the kid simply because he was a suspicious looking person in the area (i.e. black). The national media didn't pick up on this story until the 911 call was released. Based on that call, it is obvious that that the shooter was in no danger. Although I don't know much about Florida's "stand your ground law," the fact that the shooter justifies his actions based on this law, and the fact that charges have not been brought against him (yet) speaks volumes.

[Larry B.]

I find it appalling that a black person can still be suspicious just for being black. Black + male + hoodie = public enemy. And it creates debate, instead of creating mass dismay.

Unbelievable.

[Juana]

It wouldn't surprise me now that the federal level is getting involved if he gets tried under a hate crime law because it was fairly obvious he was meaning to kill this kid specifically because he was black and he had a history of calling the cops on black people which is fucking appalling that its still going on. I hope someone takes him out on the same law he's trying to hide behind, but that would be too easy. Hope he goes to prison and has to carry around a picture of the kid in his pocket as part of the sentence and constantly be reminded that his bigotry is the reason he's there and hopefully get gets introduced very violently to what happens in prison as a racist.

[chaos]

Just to clarify - the shooter said the kid looked "suspicious." I don't think "black" = "suspicious", but my previous post is worded poorly.

[farrellgirl99]

Just to clarify - the shooter said the kid looked "suspicious." I don't think "black" = "suspicious", but my previous post is worded poorly.

There was some speculation that Zimmerman used a racial slur, but I don't know if that has been debunked yet. But I watched an interview where they said if that was proven, then the case would be taken in a totally different direction.

Whether he used the slur or not, it's obvious this was a hate crime (to me atleast). And the fact that the stand your ground law was evoked is absolutely ridiculous.

It blows my mind that these things still happen and that this guy has not been formally charged yet. And that people like Geraldo Rivera have said that black and latino kids shouldn't wear hoodies. Here is the quote if no one has seen it:

"But I am urging the parents of black and Latino youngsters particularly to not let their children go out wearing hoodies. I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin's death as George Zimmerman was."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... z1q4iCi9JP

[Romeo]

This is so horrible. Every time I see a picture of Trayvon I feel true sadness. This kid is innocently walking from the 7-11 after purchasing skittles and a ice tea, chatting on his cell phone to his girl friend like a typical teen and is stalked by this self appointed "neighborhood watch" wannabe cop armed with a gun. Then after he is told by 911 not to follow the kid, shoots him & leaves him for dead in the street.

The million hoodie protests are perfect. Just people showing up in hoodies holding a bag of skittles. I saw the Miami Heat twitpic where they all stood wearing their hoodies. I wish I could of made the protest in Union Square. When Trayvon's Mom said "My son is your son" it spoke volumes.

This alleged FL law of "stand your ground" is ridiculous. Your already protected by self defense if someone breaks into your house and you shoot them. But how in this country do you shoot someone in the street because you think they look "suspicious" and that not be considered murder. What the fuck is Florida? The wild wild west??

[dali]

Hell yeah I'd shoot first and ask questions later if I ran into ^this on a dark night. lol

[chaos]

They should have left Geraldo Rivera in Al Capone's vault when they had the chance.

[Essence_Smith]

Regarding the law in that part of FL, I once had a guy try to break into my house and ended up having to confront him, etc...the police showed up and arrested the guy and told me pretty much when something like that happens you can physically get away with doing a lot to the person without much penalty just short of killing them and if I read him right there are situations where killing someone under those circumstances doesn't yield much in the way of a penalty whether they call it self defense or not...but we now know Zimmerman confronted Trayvon when he was told not to even continue following him, etc...

The situation hits home with me as the father of a young black male...its a tough enough job without having to worry about things like this happening to your children...on the race thing I have mixed feelings about it, but I doubt if the shooter was black and the kid was white the police or media response for that matter would have been the same, etc, but that's a whole other can of worms...this is a shame regardless of the kid's color and clearly his killer overstepped his bounds and should have been arrested...the evidence is coming together and hopefully the courts do the right thing here...

[LJF]

I take Geraldo's comments to mean that our society is still so fucked up that if you are black and wear a hoodie that people will think you are dangerous and committing a crime. I hope this isn't how people really think and if so it is a sad situation. ES would you take his advice and tell your son to not wear a hoodie?

[farrellgirl99]

saw this today

[dali]

sums it up well

But here's my thing, in no way am I saying that if you dress like a slut do you deserve to be raped but don't you at least deserve to be viewed as a slut?

Same goes for a hoodie and wearing a gay outfit. You don't deserve to be gay bashed but don't you deserve to at least be viewed as a flamer? Same with a hoodie. You don't deserve to be killed but don't you derserve to be viewed as looking suspicious by hiding your face and eyes.

You can tell a lot about a person by their eyes, that's why cops always ask you to remove your sunglasses when they are talking to you to see what your eyes are saying. Doesn't the same apply to a hoodie?

[LJF]

sums it up well

But here's my thing, in no way am I saying that if you dress like a slut do you deserve to be raped but don't you at least deserve to be viewed as a slut?

Same goes for a hoodie and wearing a gay outfit. You don't deserve to be gay bashed but don't you deserve to at least be viewed as a flamer? Same with a hoodie. You don't deserve to be killed but don't you derserve to be viewed as looking suspicious by hiding your face and eyes.

You can tell a lot about a person by their eyes, that's why cops always ask you to remove your sunglasses when they are talking to you to see what your eyes are saying. Doesn't the same apply to a hoodie?

What if it is cold, should you not have your hoodie up? Even if a girl gets viewed as slutty doesn't even come close to saying she deserves to be raped, that is just fucked up. I'd say cops also are looking to se if you eyes dilate.

[Hype]

Desert.

[dali]

Desert.

What does that mean?

[Hype]

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/desert/

[dali]

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/desert/

after reading about a paragraph of that novel size link I'm just gonna assume the rest of it substantiates what I posted.

[Hype]

And after reading your sentence, I will assert the following without argument: No one deserves to be viewed as anything which is essentially denigratory.

[MYXYLPLYX]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

The occupant(s) of the home may be required to attempt to exit the house or otherwise retreat (this is called the "Duty to retreat" and most self-defense statutes referred to as examples of "Castle Doctrine" expressly state that the homeowner has no such duty)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

Some states go a step further, removing the duty of retreat from any location. "Stand Your Ground", "Line In The Sand" or "No Duty To Retreat" laws thus state that a person has no duty or other requirement to abandon a place in which he has a right to be, or to give up ground to an assailant. Under such laws, there is no duty to retreat from anywhere the defender may legally be.

What I find to be the most perplexing aspect of Florida's law:

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

Allowing law enforcement on the scene and in the moment to make the call about whether a killing was a lawful act of self-defense or an unlawful homicide negates the check and balance usually provided by the DA's office. The case is never even forwarded for review by an attorney if the police's initial investigation fails to demonstrate probable cause to prosecute. The margin for error here is unacceptably large - and potential for corruption/malfeasance startling.

[dali]

What I find to be the most perplexing aspect of Florida's law:

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

Allowing law enforcement on the scene and in the moment to make the call about whether a killing was a lawful act of self-defense or an unlawful homicide negates the check and balance usually provided by the DA's office. The case is never even forwarded for review by an attorney if the police's initial investigation fails to demonstrate probable cause to prosecute. The margin for error here is unacceptably large - and potential for corruption/malfeasance startling.

Police make determinations about whether a person is lawful or not ALL THE TIME. That's the JOB of a police officer.
Your really think anytime a police person has an encounter and writes up a report saying the person was lawful that all those reports are read by the DA? Hell no, only the reports saying a person was unlawful are passed on for further inspection. There's not many examples of a police person determining a person was lawful only to have the DA come back and say the person was unlawful. The DA's job is more to to substantiate a policer officers determination that a person was unlawful.

Granted, this is homicide so surely more checks and balances should be in place than a drunk driving case, etc.

[dali]

And after reading your sentence, I will assert the following without argument: No one deserves to be viewed as anything which is essentially denigratory.

denigratory is a subjective term. It's not empirical. What is denigratory to you may not be to me.

[MYXYLPLYX]

Granted, this is homicide so surely more checks and balances should be in place than a drunk driving case, etc.

That was sort of my whole point?

We're not talking about an unlawful lane change here... we're talking about the unlawful killing of another. There must be a higher level of scrutiny than a simple preliminary investigation by law enforcement.

[Hype]

And after reading your sentence, I will assert the following without argument: No one deserves to be viewed as anything which is essentially denigratory.

denigratory is a subjective term. It's not empirical. What is denigratory to you may not be to me.

What matters is not what is denigratory to the utterer, but what is denigratory to the recipient of the adjective(s). What is denigratory to the recipient is that which, quite literally, 'blackens' them, or, more colloquially, treats them unfairly. Perhaps it is arguable, but I reassert: no one deserves this.

[Essence_Smith]

I take Geraldo's comments to mean that our society is still so fucked up that if you are black and wear a hoodie that people will think you are dangerous and committing a crime. I hope this isn't how people really think and if so it is a sad situation. ES would you take his advice and tell your son to not wear a hoodie?

I wouldn't tell my son NOT to wear a hoodie, but throwing the hood on is a sure way to provoke suspicion from law enforcement etc...it may sound completely fucked up but its actually an unwritten deal where I come from...if you're wearing one particularly with the hood up, you're definitely more likely to attract the wrong kind of attention. I have known this since I was a teenager myself and I'd tell him that along with:

Always make sure you have ID...I was once stopped by detectives who were looking for a murder suspect, they told me if I couldn't produce ID I would be taken into custody...

Do NOT RUN from police, you will get beatdown...common sense imo, but people still do it even when they haven't done anything wrong...

Don't mouth off to police officers and only speak when spoken to...I could go on forever with it...unfortunately young black males are under intense scrutiny, people have all sorts of negative ideas in their heads about who we are, and its part of our experience...that being said I wouldn't trade it in for the world...when I can think of some advantages though I'll let you know...