Trayvon Martin

[Hype]

Tired of reading about this being a hate crime. The police should not be in the business of reading minds. Dangerous stuff.

It's murder. It's horrific and the shooter should hang, regardless of his reasons for being "scared." Should he be punished less if the kid was white and wearing a hoodie?

You saw Bill Maher last Friday, didn't you? Not surprisingly, we disagree here.

[Pure Method]

Hoka, I'm a little skeptical about your inundation of black on white crimes and the "knockout" game. it reminds me of when all those news reports went around about kids mixing up their parents pills in a bowl and having "Pharm Parties". Granted, kids abuse prescription meds just as any drug, but those reports were unrealisitic and for the most part, entirely fabricated. Could you elaborate on the crimes you seem to be seeing (I know, not literally seeing) everywhere?

[creep]

Hoka, I'm a little skeptical about your inundation of black on white crimes and the "knockout" game. it reminds me of when all those news reports went around about kids mixing up their parents pills in a bowl and having "Pharm Parties". Granted, kids abuse prescription meds just as any drug, but those reports were unrealisitic and for the most part, entirely fabricated. Could you elaborate on the crimes you seem to be seeing (I know, not literally seeing) everywhere?

google

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 0c5f8.html

[Pure Method]

Also, just got off the phone with my brother. He told me two things:

1) Trayvon was suspended for bringing weed to school

and more impprtantly

2) There is eyewitness testimony that Trayvon punched Zimmerman in the face and stomped on the back of his head. The police also reported that he had a bloody nose and cuts on his face.

Sounds like Zimmerman's story may be corroborated. If so, and he gets off, at most with a lesser charge (something for instigating the whole scenario, perhaps?), I can't imagine what will happen next. Rodney King 2.0? Riots? Understanding? Approval of the process?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin ... 3ElL-xSQW4

[dali]

Also, just got off the phone with my brother. He told me two things:

1) Trayvon was suspended for bringing weed to school

and more impprtantly

2) There is eyewitness testimony that Trayvon punched Zimmerman in the face and stomped on the back of his head. The police also reported that he had a bloody nose and cuts on his face.

Sounds like Zimmerman's story may be corroborated. If so, and he gets off, at most with a lesser charge (something for instigating the whole scenario, perhaps?), I can't imagine what will happen next. Rodney King 2.0? Riots? Understanding? Approval of the process?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin ... 3ElL-xSQW4

Don't you know that young black men in this country are untouchable? Just like gay's, etc they can do things white males can't and get away with it because all they have to do is whip out the "race card" or the "gay card". Same thing happened with the rodney king riots. They were just young black men expressing outrage right?.

[chaos]

If some stranger followed me, yelled at me, and then got out of his car and approached me on a dark street, I would fight for my life.

Even Bubba Bush, the former Governor of Florida, recognizes that there has been a miscarriage of justice here.

[dali]

If some stranger followed me, yelled at me, and then got out of his car and approached me on a dark street, I would fight for my life.

So you agree with Trayvon "standing his ground"?

[chaos]

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon ... stions.php

When Trayvon leaves the clubhouse, Zimmerman pursues him in his car.

Trayvon is talking on his cell phone to his 16-year-old girlfriend in Miami. She says Trayvon tells her someone is following him. He sounds nervous. She tells him to run.

Trayvon goes off the road to walk between two rows of town homes, down the lane from his destination, Zimmerman gets out of his car and pursues him on foot. He tells the dispatcher "oh shit, he's running." the dispatcher asks if he is pursuing the subject. When Zimmerman says he is, the dispatcher says, "we don't need you to do that."

They don't get far. Just around the back lane, Trayvon is confronted by the stranger in a red jacket and jeans - he's not dressed like a police officer.

Trayvon's girlfriend is still on the phone. She says she hears someone confront Trayvon, and ask him what he was doing there. The phone drops.


At that time, the first 911 call is placed to police by an alarmed neighbor, who reports hearing a fight going on in their backyard. It was followed in rapid succession by five more calls to the emergency number. One caller says she hears someone screaming for help, and then gunshots.

It has been reported that voice recognition tests are being performed to determine who is screaming for help - Trayvon or Zimmerman.

[dali]

Get over it already.

Obama got over it.

I'm talking about this whole racism issue and black people STILL holding a grudge for slavery. That was 150 years ago. It's over.

I'm half Irish. My immigrant ancestors were treated like shit when they came to America (forced to be in the Army right off the docks of Ellis Island, etc). Do us Irish STILL hold a grudge for that? Do everytime an irish person is harmed do we make a fuss about it? Hell No, we have moved on with our lives.

Shoot me for saying this (actually don't like Larry Flynt) but isn't it time for african americans to do the same?

[Essence_Smith]

Get over it already.

Obama got over it.

I'm talking about this whole racism issue and black people STILL holding a grudge for slavery. That was 150 years ago. It's over.

I'm half Irish. My immigrant ancestors were treated like shit when they came to America (forced to be in the Army right off the docks of Ellis Island, etc). Do us Irish STILL hold a grudge for that? Do everytime an irish person is harmed do we make a fuss about it? Hell No, we have moved on with our lives.

Shoot me for saying this (actually don't like Larry Flynt) but isn't it time for african americans to do the same?

Wow...I don't even know where to begin with this one...get over it? You gotta be fucking kidding me...

[SR]

Hmm, I am not a fan of the "hate crime" distinction.

dali equating Irish and Black experience in the states is absurd and insulting.

[Romeo]

apparently ES you must "get over" being black. So next time a cop stops & frisks you fo no god damn reason you need to just take it like a man.

Is this 1958???

1: WHY Trayvon was suspended and staying with his Dad during that suspension has absolutely no baring on being shot dead. Because NONE OF US HERE ever smoked weed in HS
2: if someone was tailing me and stops me to ask what am I doing here, you are damn right I'm fighting back. shit, we have a rash of groping going on in NY. You know damn sure if someone is going to reach under my skirt to touch me, I'm going to try hard to hurt that person.
Trayvon was on his cell talking to his girlfriend and told her someone was following him. Zimmerman admits to following him after the 911 dispatcher told him "not to". These are two facts we do know. As for the head cut & bloody nose, even if he refused medical treatment those wounds would have been photographed by the Police if it was an alleged "self defense" case.

The rest is Zimmerman trying to save his ass from being arrested because Trayvon can not speak for himself to tell his side.

[Essence_Smith]

dali equating Irish and Black experience in the states is absurd and insulting.

Pretty much...I'd like to add disappointing...

[SR]

apparently ES you must "get over" being black.

There is an inherent issue of authority here, and it's overreaching and dismissive simultaniously.

[Essence_Smith]

apparently ES you must "get over" being black.

You know I have NEVER felt sorry for myself, but it is VERY disappointing to know in my heart that in many many ways I am at a disadvantage in life because of the color of my skin...forget the obvious situations where one can see that they're being discriminated against, etc, I've been subject to so many subtle aspects of racism it's scary...and I work in corporate america where its even more sketchy at times to know where you truly stand, etc...I have literally been asked during a job interview "are you normally this articulate, or are you doing that just for me?"

As I get older it becomes clearer to me that we need more than just that silly black history month that basically marginalizes our experience and contributions to american society and culture...black history is american history... to look at it any other way is crazy imo, & it would go a LONG way to help future generations if we could get people to understand and embrace that...dali's attitude is actually pretty common and that to me tells me that regardless of how far we've come we still have a REALLY long way to go...that kind of sentiment actually bothers me more than if someone used some sort of racial slur and the reason for that is not just because it was insensitive but because it shows a deep ignorance of the impact of african slavery in the americas...pretty depressing to know that people feel its something that "happened a long time ago" that people need to "get over"...breaks my heart...

[Romeo]

I'm half Irish. My immigrant ancestors were treated like shit when they came to America (forced to be in the Army right off the docks of Ellis Island, etc). Do us Irish STILL hold a grudge for that? Do everytime an irish person is harmed do we make a fuss about it? Hell No, we have moved on with our lives.

Mmmmmmm I didn't know the Irish were forced to come to America against their will in chains and made to work in fields and were owned by other americans.
I must have missed those signs down in the south over the water fountains that stated "For Irish only". Or when the Irish were made to sit in the back of the bus. Or all those times the Irish were lynched from trees. Or those four Irish girls killed when a bomb went off in their church. Or that law that a white an a Irish person couldn't marry.

I'm the Grandaughter of Immigrants from Russia, Romania and Italy. ALL Immigrants were discriminated against by their own countrymen for being newbies or other immigrant groups. The Irish hated the Italians, the Italians hated the Germans, The Germans hated the Polish. And everyone was poor. But everyone could make something of themselves.

Not if you were black, former slaves or the child of former slaves and living south of the mason/dixon line. My family never lived in fear of being lynched or beaten just for being who they were.

[Romeo]

apparently ES you must "get over" being black.

You know I have NEVER felt sorry for myself, but it is VERY disappointing to know in my heart that in many many ways I am at a disadvantage in life because of the color of my skin...forget the obvious situations where one can see that they're being discriminated against, etc, I've been subject to so many subtle aspects of racism it's scary...and I work in corporate america where its even more sketchy at times to know where you truly stand, etc...I have literally been asked during a job interview "are you normally this articulate, or are you doing that just for me?"

As I get older it becomes clearer to me that we need more than just that silly black history month that basically marginalizes our experience and contributions to american society and culture...black history is american history... to look at it any other way is crazy imo, & it would go a LONG way to help future generations if we could get people to understand and embrace that...dali's attitude is actually pretty common and that to me tells me that regardless of how far we've come we still have a REALLY long way to go...that kind of sentiment actually bothers me more than if someone used some sort of racial slur and the reason for that is not just because it was insensitive but because it shows a deep ignorance of the impact of african slavery in the americas...pretty depressing to know that people feel its something that "happened a long time ago" that people need to "get over"...breaks my heart...

you're right. Everyone's history whether it's black, native american, white, Irish, hispanic, Italian etc...it's all the fabric of this countries history and should be told as such.
I always admired a old exhibit at the Smithsonian many years ago titled "A Nation of Nations" and told the story of modern America, all of america, all of the groups involved whether by free will or against free will as the entire story. The good the bad and the ugly...with pop culture thrown in.

Racism is very much alive and well, it's just very subtle right now.

[Essence_Smith]

This piece was in the NY Daily News recently and was written by a very bright guy who's blog I read often...I feel it was well thought out & reminded me of Dali's sentiments...

The illusions of a post-racial era
The Trayvon Martin tragedy lays waste to the notion of a color-blind America

On Friday, President Obama himself weighed in on the killing of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman in a gated community in Florida:

“If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon,” he said. The implications of that statement are clear.

If a black man killed a white kid for holding a bag of Skittles, he would be in jail. If a black man killed an innocent white teen in an act of vigilante justice, he would also not be walking free.
And yet there is a temptation in supposedly color-blind 21st century America to think of racism as a thing of the past.

In 2004, Obama famously said, “There is not a Black America and a White America and Latino America and Asian America — there’s the United States of America.”

Maybe he spoke too soon.

True, we are beyond overt acts of intolerance: burning crosses, white robes, lynchings. But racism is more than this: It is structural and institutional.Today’s racism teaches subtle lessons about whose personhood is to be protected — and which people are deemed expendable.

Zimmerman breathed in this toxic ether. He seems to have learned its lessons well. I think that Zimmerman killed Martin because he knew, either on a conscious or subconscious level, that he could get away with it.

This point needs reiteration: The lives of young people of color are systematically devalued in American society.

In New York City, for example, black and Latino youth are routinely subject to racial profiling and police harassment under the policy of stop-and-frisk.

Young black and brown people are faced with consistent threats and intrusions on their civil liberties by police authorities — even though many studies have shown that there is no greater yield of contraband when minorities are stopped.

And as documented by The Sentencing Project and discussed in Michelle Alexander’s recent book, “The New Jim Crow,” when charged with the same crimes as whites, blacks are more likely to receive harsher sentences.

Researchers have found that whites are more likely to imagine that harmless objects (phones, keys, candy bars, wallets), when held in the hands of black people, are guns or other weapons. As the 1999 killing of Amadou Diallo in the Bronx demonstrated, implicit bias and subconscious racism can have deadly consequences.

The public schools that black youth attend are more likely to be underserved and resource-poor. All things being equal, black children are also more likely to face suspension, be stigmatized as “special education” or find themselves placed in lower educational tracks than their white peers.

Because of disparities in access to health care, black people live significantly shorter lives than whites, dying 5-7 years earlier.

In the housing market, racial minorities were offered riskier and more expensive mortgages than whites — even when their credit scores were identical or better. The sum effect of these racist policies was the devastation of the black and brown middle classes.

Zimmerman may not have had access to these facts, but he was certainly influenced by the values they represent: Black youth, and the communities to which they belong, are less valued than those of white Americans.

America is a society still sick with racism. The murder of Trayvon Martin, and the assumption likely made by George Zimmerman that he could kill a black youth at will, is proof of this illness. That Zimmerman is still walking free, and some are rallying to his defense, demonstrates how far America has yet to go in order to exorcise these demons from its collective psyche.



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/illu ... z1qKkHCOmX

[Hype]

Racism is just a specific version of the general psychological fact that humans like and dislike things, and associate general features of the things they like and dislike with their likings and dislikings. It's pretty simple, and unlikely to ever go away. The best we can do is point it out and try to counteract it.

[Essence_Smith]

Racism is just a specific version of the general psychological fact that humans like and dislike things, and associate general features of the things they like and dislike with their likings and dislikings. It's pretty simple, and unlikely to ever go away. The best we can do is point it out and try to counteract it.

I agree... and to add I am very much comfortable with and encourage honest conversation on the matter online or off...never hurts to communicate...with SENSITIVITY...

Also I meant to point this out before but this part of the piece I posted made me laugh and think of someone who posts here:

Researchers have found that whites are more likely to imagine that harmless objects (phones, keys, candy bars, wallets), when held in the hands of black people, are guns or other weapons.

[Hokahey]

Also I meant to point this out before but this part of the piece I posted made me laugh and think of someone who posts here:

Researchers have found that whites are more likely to imagine that harmless objects (phones, keys, candy bars, wallets), when held in the hands of black people, are guns or other weapons.

I find it embarrassing for you that you've ignored the facts regarding that situation and refuse to let go of some imaginary course of events that didn't really occur the way you want to believe they did to justify your opinion of someone. Sounds a little prejudiced.

It wasn't what he had in his hand. It was what he was reaching for in his jacket that concerned me. And for anyone to suggest his race played a part, or that everyone wasn't a little freaked by the group of crack heads suddenly surrounding us then they're a liar, which NIN464874689 proved himself to be when he said he lied about me making race an issue because I "lied" about how he and his friends were interacting with Pete.

[Essence_Smith]

Ummmmm Hoka??? Relax buddy it was a joke...I wasn't there and could care less what happened...water under the bridge man, seriously...it was a joke...

[chaos]

The 911 call is pretty damning, and the reason race has been raised in the first place is because of the shooter's own words. By his own admission he said that Trayvon looked "suspicious" (among other things). He chose to get out of his car when Trayvon ran away from him. Now he's crying that he had no other choice than to shoot because the kid fought him.

Some people do not want to accept the extent to which race is still an issue in the country, yet some people accept it and feel that minorities need to be careful with how they dress.

Some people think that a hate crime label should not be applied (or that there should be no such thing as a hate crime).

Some people think that the shooter was defending himself.

The bottom line is that an unarmed 17 year old was pursued, approached, and shot by a man who thought he didn't belong in his neighborhood. The shooter has yet to be arrested. Even though the child had id on him, it took several days before the police notified the child's parents.

This is not something you "get over." It is a big deal.

[Hokahey]

Ummmmm Hoka??? Relax buddy it was a joke...I wasn't there and could care less what happened...water under the bridge man, seriously...it was a joke...

It's always gotten under my skin. I'm sure you wouldn't want it insinuated that you're a rapist or something that you find dispicable.

And I'm glad you're joking, but it's not a subject I find funny.

Just like the time you raped that lady.

Ha...right? It's funny right?

[SR]

The 911 call is pretty damning, and the reason race has been raised in the first place is because of the shooter's own words. By his own admission he said that Trayvon looked "suspicious" (among other things). He chose to get out of his car when Trayvon ran away from him. Now he's crying that he had no other choice than to shoot because the kid fought him.

Some people do not want to accept the extent to which race is still an issue in the country, yet some people accept it and feel that minorities need to be careful with how they dress.

Some people think that a hate crime label should not be applied (or that there should be no such thing as a hate crime).

Some people think that the shooter was defending himself.

The bottom line is that an unarmed 17 year old was pursued, approached, and shot by a man who thought he didn't belong in his neighborhood. The shooter has yet to be arrested. Even though the child had id on him, it took several days before the police notified the child's parents.

This is not something you "get over." It is a big deal.