Donald Trump running for President.

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mockbee
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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#201 Post by mockbee » Wed May 04, 2016 10:27 am

SR wrote:
SR wrote:
mockbee wrote:Trump is going to be involved with this until the end. Kasich wouldn't consolidate support and the backlash from the combined forces of irate cruz and trump supporters would be overwhelming for the party.


But, yeah, this is all very strange.....

It's like everyone has lost all sense of reality. We are now living a reality show, where nothing has any real consequences...:hs:
I disagree. It's kasich or bust. And the party knows it. But, we'll see
:lol: Well, wishful thinking is a "powerful drug".

I'll have to admit that I gasped when I heard that Trump essentially wrapped it up, (now officially)....but I am not surprised. GOP has been playing a grand con game since the civil rights era and now tables are flipped again. Like Thomas Edsall said, Trump is your '30s era Democrat and Hillary is your Bush Republican. With the tables flipped it remains to be seen how they realign themselves.

I would be terrified if I were a Romney/Bush/Old Guard conservative, because starting today you are no longer a Republican. And you may never be a Republican again if Trump gives Hillary a run for her money. They better hope that Trump loses in spectacular fashion, or else, we are really, really screwed. This might be a permanent realignment and the country will be searching for a new demagogue post Hillary.

:aoa:

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#202 Post by chaos » Wed May 04, 2016 10:48 am

I guess Canada will starting building a wall (and send the US the bill :lol: ).

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#203 Post by mockbee » Wed May 04, 2016 10:52 am

:wave:

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#204 Post by SR » Wed May 04, 2016 11:10 am

Pandemonium wrote:
SR wrote:We have a ton of people coming out of the shadows with a proud xenophobic, racist, misogynistic pied piper leading the way.

I'd like to say it's not really "us" and I HATE to universalize, but I have driven across country 3 times in the last 2 years and lived in FL a couple of times and the people I have encountered are far worse than I ever expected. Those expectations were not high to begin with. They are truly terrifying.

The USA is remarkably unevolved from Jim Crow.
It's more than that fueling Trumps rise to power. A *lot* of people are disgusted with the last 15 years' worth of political gridlock bullshit and especially the last few years with a do-nothing Congress, you hear the same line repeated over and over - "(Trump) isn't part of the political establishment." A good percentage of people backing Trump (as well as Sanders) want a perceived outsider who isn't beholden to "Wall Street" and the corporate machine.

That said, I admit it's amusing that Trump has pretty much crushed the pack of assholes from Bush to Cruz and is about to bend over the Republican party simply by mastering the art of the tabloid news cycle.
Agreed. It's more, for real.....evangelicals, etc. He got everybody, though. And a Yuge part of his demo are the people I've referenced. Odd too, so many are 'working class' who are lining up, as I said, for someone who gloats in most vulgar fashion about riches while he boards private jets and yachts with 18k gold fixtures.

And yes, too he crushed assholes. But to begin, this was one of the weakest group of candidates I have ever seen.....almost all reverting to/pandered to a decade old narrative of justifiable racism and misogyny......and more.

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#205 Post by SR » Wed May 04, 2016 11:10 am

chaos wrote:I guess Canada will starting building a wall (and send the US the bill :lol: ).
:nod: I would, but let me in first.

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#206 Post by mockbee » Wed May 04, 2016 2:05 pm



prescient, in every way.

third time's a charm..... :sui:

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#207 Post by SR » Wed May 04, 2016 2:22 pm

This too...."Donald For Prez" 16 years before this mess, and well the disparity issue isn't new either.


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Artemis
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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#208 Post by Artemis » Wed May 04, 2016 2:53 pm

Hialry's latest attack ad:




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Matz
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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#209 Post by Matz » Wed May 04, 2016 3:26 pm

:lol: fuck, that's a lot to counter

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#210 Post by mockbee » Wed May 04, 2016 5:08 pm

hmmm.....

Hillary running as a failed (possibly extinct) republican.


as kv would say


weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...........!

:drink:

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#211 Post by Bandit72 » Fri May 06, 2016 2:40 am

I wonder if Hilary will start having sexual relations with the 22 year old White House post boy? And then be supported by her husband? :bigrin:

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#212 Post by chaos » Sat May 07, 2016 12:52 pm

Some insight into the family dynamics.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cass ... nald-trump

JANUARY 4, 2016
What Sort of Man Is Donald Trump?
BY JOHN CASSIDY

On Sunday, the Times ran a front-page story about Donald Trump’s older brother, Freddy, a heavy drinker who died an early death, back in 1981, at the age of forty-three. Freddy was a free spirit who quit the family real-estate business to become a pilot; Donald was more ambitious, attending Wharton business school and following the lead of his father, Fred, Sr., a developer who built the family fortune.

The article contained some interesting stuff about the young Donald Trump. And, buried toward the end, it also referred to an incident that says something about the adult Trump, what sort of a person he is, and what kind of President he might be. In 2000, during a family dispute about the details of his father’s will, Trump, who was by then fabulously wealthy in his own right, cut off benefits from the family health plan that were paying for the medical care of his nephew’s seriously ill young son.

Donald Trump in February, 2000, around the time that a dispute over their father's will led Trump and two of his siblings to cut off health-care coverage for his nephew's chronically ill child.

On Sunday, the Times ran a front-page story about Donald Trump’s older brother, Freddy, a heavy drinker who died an early death, back in 1981, at the age of forty-three. Freddy was a free spirit who quit the family real-estate business to become a pilot; Donald was more ambitious, attending Wharton business school and following the lead of his father, Fred, Sr., a developer who built the family fortune.

The article contained some interesting stuff about the young Donald Trump. And, buried toward the end, it also referred to an incident that says something about the adult Trump, what sort of a person he is, and what kind of President he might be. In 2000, during a family dispute about the details of his father’s will, Trump, who was by then fabulously wealthy in his own right, cut off benefits from the family health plan that were paying for the medical care of his nephew’s seriously ill young son.

The Times story didn’t go into much detail about the fight within the Trump family, but it was a bitter one. Heidi Evans, a reporter for the Daily News, who later won a Pulitzer Prize as an editorial writer, covered the story at the time, and she got the goods. This is how one of Evans’s articles, which the Daily News published on December 19, 2000, began:

Even when it comes to a sick baby in his family, Donald Trump is all business. The megabuilder and his siblings Robert and Maryanne terminated their nephew’s family medical coverage a week after he challenged the will of their father, Fred Trump. “This was so shocking, so disappointing and so vindictive,” said niece Lisa Trump, whose son, William, was born 18 months ago at Mount Sinai Medical Center with a rare neurological disorder that produces violent seizures, brain damage and medical bills topping $300,000.

According to Evans’s account, the baby, William Trump—whose father, Fred Trump III, is Freddy’s son—had been diagnosed with “infantile spasms, a rare disorder that can lead to cerebral palsy or autism and a lifetime of care.” (The Times article notes that William did develop cerebral palsy.) This chronic illness required round-the-clock nursing care and frequent visits to medical specialists and emergency rooms. Twice in the first eight months of his life, William stopped breathing. At that stage, fortunately for the baby and his family, he was being covered under a medical plan paid for by a Trump family company.

The situation changed in March, 2000, after Fred III and his wife, Lisa, filed suit in Queen’s Surrogate Court, claiming that Fred, Sr., who died in June, 1999, had been suffering from Alzheimer’s disease and that his will had been “procured by fraud and undue influence” on the part of Donald, his brother Robert, a New York businessman, and his sister Maryanne, a federal judge in Newark, New Jersey. The will had divided most of their father’s estate, which was worth somewhere between a hundred million and three hundred million dollars, between the families of his surviving children, leaving considerably less to Freddy’s descendants than to other siblings’ children.

Trump and his siblings insisted that the will accurately reflected their father’s wishes. After the challenge, it didn’t take them long to retaliate. On March 30th, Fred III received a certified letter telling him that the medical benefits provided to his family by the Trump organization would end on May 1st. The letter prompted Fred III to return to court, this time in Nassau County, where a judge ordered the Trumps to restore the health coverage until the dispute was resolved. “I will stick to my guns,” Fred III told Evans. “I just think it was wrong. These are not warm and fuzzy people. They never even came to see William in the hospital. Our family puts the ‘fun’ in dysfunctional.” Fred III’s sister, Mary, told Evans, “William is my father’s grandson. He is as much a part of that family as anybody else. He desperately needs extra care.”

Trump, for his part, was unapologetic about his actions. “Why should we give him medical coverage?” he told Evans. When she asked him if he thought he might come across as cold-hearted, given the baby’s medical condition, he said, “I can’t help that. It’s cold when someone sues my father. Had he come to see me, things could very possibly have been much different for them.”

In talking to the Times reporter Jason Horowitz about the decision to withdraw the medical coverage, Trump said, “I was angry because they sued.” Eventually, the lawsuit was settled “very amicably,” he said, and he claimed to be fond of Fred III, who now works in real estate but not as part of the Trump organization.

It was perhaps notable, however, that the story didn’t contain any comment from Fred III or his sister Mary reciprocating those feelings.

Here's the link to the NYT article referenced in the above piece:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/us/po ... .html?_r=1
For Donald Trump, Lessons From a Brother’s Suffering
By JASON HOROWITZJAN. 2, 2016

. . . But Freddy was less concerned with ethnic distinctions. When he enrolled at Lehigh University in Pennsylvania, the boy with blond hair who had attended an Episcopalian boys’ preparatory school on Long Island joined a Jewish fraternity.

“It may have been Freddy’s first attempt to make his own statement to his father,” said his best friend at Lehigh, Bruce Turry, who, like several other former fraternity brothers, remembered Freddy claiming that his father, the son of German immigrants, was Jewish. (He was not.) “Freddy was a classic illustration of someone who had a father complex.”

The Jewish fraternity brothers kidded Freddy about his middle name, Christ. He found the ribbing, like much else in life, hysterical. . . .
I'm surprised Trump's middle name isn't The Führer :lol:

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#213 Post by mockbee » Sat May 07, 2016 8:30 pm

Image
Image

ahhh eugene.... :lol:

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#214 Post by mockbee » Sun May 08, 2016 10:21 pm

Trump Walking Back Tax Plan, Wage Position
By Chas Danner

Image
”Nobody knows more about taxes than I do, and income than I do,” Trump insisted on Sunday. Photo: Matt Mills McKnight/Getty Images

Less than a week after securing his presumptive GOP nominee status, Donald Trump is already revising some of his policy positions. Across two interviews on Sunday morning, Trump both backed off part of his tax plan — one of the only substantive policy proposals he has yet to release — and seemed to be changing course compared to his previous comments about wages. On ABC’s This Week, Trump admitted to host George Stephanopoulos that his tax proposal, “by the time it gets negotiated,” was “going to be a different plan.” What will be different? According to Trump, probably a higher tax rate on the wealthy.

“The rich is probably going to end up paying more,” Trump told Chuck Todd on NBC’s Meet the Press Sunday morning, adding on This Week that, “I am willing to pay more, and you know what, the wealthy are willing to pay more.” Trump’s tax plan, which he released in September, indicated he would cut taxes for everyone, including the wealthy, who would only have to pay a a rate 25 percent under his plan. On Sunday though, Trump insisted that while he was proposing that new lower rate for the wealthy, their taxes would in likely end up higher than that following negotiations with Democrats over the plan, though not higher than what they are now. Trump also said he would insist that the proposed tax cuts in his plan for businesses and the middle class would remain. So instead of his plan being his actual plan, it's actually just a “floor” to get the negotiations started, and Trump fully expects to have to ditch the tax rate he proposed for the rich during those negotiations.

The other new position that Trump had this week was that he is now in favor of a higher minimum wage, after previously having complained back in November that wages were “too high.” On Wednesday, Trump seemed to indicate he was willing to consider increasing the Federal minimum wage, noting on CNN that “I'm looking at that, I'm very different from most Republicans.” Added Trump, “You have to have something you can live on. But what I'm really looking to do is get people great jobs so they make much more money than that, much more money than the $15.” Sunday on This Week, he reiterated that position, saying that “I am looking at it, and I haven't decided in terms of numbers. But I think people have to get more.” Sunday on Meet the Press, Trump added, “I don't know how people make it on $7.25 an hour. Now, with that being said, I would like to see an increase of some magnitude. But I'd rather leave it to the states. Let the states decide.”

So just to be clear, absent from his new statements is any real plan to have the federal government play a direct role in raising the minimum wage — beyond providing some rising-tide-lifts-all-boats improvement for the economy — but it still marks a reversal from his earlier comments, and may be evidence the candidate is trying, in his own vague and Trumpian way, to make a kind of pivot to the general-election fight, now that the GOP is stuck with him.

Pressed about these position changes by Stephanopoulos on ABC, Trump insisted that, “Sure, it's a change. I'm allowed to change. You need flexibility, George, whether it's a tax plan, where you're going — where you know you're going to negotiate. But we're going to come up with something.”

Needless to say, Trump revised positions aren’t likely to assuage fears within the Republican party that he’s not the best choice to represent them in November.


Hooooly shiiiiit..............:scared:


Plato was right.

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#215 Post by Hype » Mon May 09, 2016 5:56 am

The trick is to make sure he can't fuck up the constitution or prevent the citizenry from getting rid of him when he inevitably fucks it all up. :nod:

So long as the system is upheld, at best, it's 4 years with an entitled 70 year old brat. At worst... 8 years. Hell, you guys RE-elected a fucking moron 12 years ago. :lol: How bad could it get?

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#216 Post by mockbee » Mon May 09, 2016 9:28 am

This is just a really weird time.

"More democracy" was always the prescribed course for salvation from the left.
Now not so much.... keep them away! :scared: :noclue:

I see this one of two ways.

(1) The working-class left/minority vote comes out strong for Hillary, status quo remains for better or worse.

(2) We see a dramatic upswing in voter participation, the silent majority comes out strong for Trump, possibly elected. Chaos ensues. Though I do have faith in our system of government. Like you said, our Justice, Military, Congress, etc have Constitutional duties I don't see them completely eschewing in the next 4-8 years........though, they have been eroded pretty consistently for a while now and public trust is at an all time low. :noclue:

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#217 Post by SR » Mon May 09, 2016 9:32 am

So, stripped down you have either Hill or Donald winning? :hehe: J/k

I think the silent masses revealed themselves in the primaries.

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#218 Post by mockbee » Mon May 09, 2016 9:55 am

You have a better imagination than I do if (2) is even conceivable.....? :wink: :lol:

Not in any living American's lifetime anyways.

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#219 Post by SR » Mon May 09, 2016 10:16 am

My imagination led me to believe he would never have arrived where he is. I'll ride on yours from now on. :hehe:

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#220 Post by Hype » Mon May 09, 2016 11:03 am

There isn't "more democracy" right now... There's arguably far less than ever before. Trump is, admittedly, a weird case because of the lack of PAC money, but I think there's an argument for treating his success as a symptom of the rise of Super PACs and the increased polarization of the Republican party after Obama's election (especially the Tea Party movement -- ostensibly democratic grass roots, but almost certainly exacerbated by money). Rather than respond to the problems that have been created by money in politics through democratic means, a certain segment of the population superstitiously reacted by supporting an "anti-politician", regardless of what he says, and regardless of the fact that Trump isn't a solution to the problem of money in politics just because his campaign is using a lot of his own money.

Trump isn't even a crypto-fascist... he's just a fascist who hasn't yet become a fascist in policy or act, and it's obvious why people support that -- nihilism and despair breeds desire for a strong leader, but doesn't require that the person who satisfies the desire actually be strong, only that he or she appears strong.

It's not like people didn't support Mussolini...

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#221 Post by mockbee » Mon May 09, 2016 12:51 pm

Hype wrote:There isn't "more democracy" right now... There's arguably far less than ever before. Trump is, admittedly, a weird case because of the lack of PAC money, but I think there's an argument for treating his success as a symptom of the rise of Super PACs and the increased polarization of the Republican party after Obama's election (especially the Tea Party movement -- ostensibly democratic grass roots, but almost certainly exacerbated by money). Rather than respond to the problems that have been created by money in politics through democratic means, a certain segment of the population superstitiously reacted by supporting an "anti-politician", regardless of what he says, and regardless of the fact that Trump isn't a solution to the problem of money in politics just because his campaign is using a lot of his own money.

Trump isn't even a crypto-fascist... he's just a fascist who hasn't yet become a fascist in policy or act, and it's obvious why people support that -- nihilism and despair breeds desire for a strong leader, but doesn't require that the person who satisfies the desire actually be strong, only that he or she appears strong.

It's not like people didn't support Mussolini...
I guess "more democracy" could mean a lot of things. Like, more accountability, more reasoned debate, more inclusiveness, less money in politics, etc. which would all be good and what we seem to be steadily steering away from; but when it comes down to it, it's just about the votes. Is that not the primary component of "more democracy"? Not everyone is going to be involved in the workings of our democracy, leaving it to/trusting it to the elites.

I guess I definitely have less faith in "more votes fixing things" than I have in the past. But where does that leave us? :noclue:


Education.......phhhht. :waits:

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#222 Post by Hype » Mon May 09, 2016 2:52 pm

Democracy isn't votes. I've said a version of this before, but I'll reiterate: voting is important ONLY because it's a reliable mechanism for ensuring peaceful and stable transfer of political power. Democracy is far more than mere voting for representatives. It also involves direct democracy in the form of plebiscites and what you call "ballot initiatives". It also involves being able to hold representatives accountable by law through a free press and court system. But more importantly it also involves at its core that it is the people AS A WHOLE who legitimize political authority, rather than monarchs or aristocrats or plutocrats or demagogues or tyrants.

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#223 Post by mockbee » Mon May 09, 2016 3:17 pm

Sure, voting does not constitute a democracy, but surely if/when a majority of people pick a professed tyrant; it it indicative of it's health.

I think the vast majority of people along all political spectrums are perplexed about what to do next.

And if they aren't, they soon will be. :noclue:

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#224 Post by Hype » Mon May 09, 2016 6:24 pm

mockbee wrote:Sure, voting does not constitute a democracy, but surely if/when a majority of people pick a professed tyrant; it it indicative of it's health.

I think the vast majority of people along all political spectrums are perplexed about what to do next.

And if they aren't, they soon will be. :noclue:
See Germany in the 1930s for a good example of how an elected official can flip a democracy into a dictatorship.

If Trump is elected rather than Clinton, and he begins to act on some of the blatantly fascist things he has said as a candidate, the test of the health of American democracy will be what congress and the courts, as well as ordinary citizens and journalists, are able to do to prevent the entire thing from turning into either tyranny or anarchy.

Scalia's death is probably helpful, though, despite some of the crazy things he supported/dissented from due to his originalism, I doubt he would have supported truly fascist legislation.

Suppose the democrats lose the presidential vote: one possibility is that they manage to retake the house and use that to mitigate presidential power.

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Re: Donald Trump running for President.

#225 Post by Artemis » Thu May 12, 2016 3:12 pm

I'm a little surprised about Paul Ryan today. A few days ago he said he didn't want anything to do with supporting Trump, Now? He's basically pushing everyone in the party to join hands and sing 'We Are the World'. Talk about a radical shift! I guess the Republican Party tolerated Donald at first, thinking he wouldn't get very far. Nobody's laughing now though. :scared:

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