Michael Brown

[kv]

ya but it's not 1989 anymore...i mean when i grew up we had woden guns that looked exactly like real guns and we would ru the streets playing army...nobody carried because there weren't mass shootings every other week then

[Hype]

Doesn't matter... if you're not black, you don't get shot in a split second like that. In Toronto they shot a white (well, white or Arab or something) kid with a knife who was on a bus... six times... and there was a huge uproar... and he really did refuse to drop his knife repeatedly (but was mentally ill).

There's no sane way to blame a guy for holding a piece of merchandise from the store he's in.

[guysmiley]

I agree there is fault to be spread around, but mostly on the cops and Walmart. However, (and I'm not trying to make a joke) I think we need classes on how members of the public should conduct themselves when confronted with a cop. Sad? Yes. But, one thing I was always told as a teenager, don't make sudden movements in front of a cop. Don't back talk too much either. Yes, it's fucked up, but that's the way things are and have been for a long time. If you're black, don't be seen with a gun. Just be wary of the police in general and make slow moves. Well, they made a joke of it here, but I think there's a lot of truth to it.
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/14muz ... and-don-ts

[Hype]

As with victim-blaming in how to "not get raped", this conflates what are at best pragmatic guidelines (don't show skin, don't have a gun, don't make sudden movements) with moral responsibility. No victim of immoral behaviour bears any responsibility for that behaviour. And this would be true even if the pragmatic guidelines that arise were causally efficacious in the first place -- they are not. Black men will be shot by cops whether they have guns or not. Women will be raped whether they wear burqas or not. It's superstitious to think otherwise.

[guysmiley]

Fucked up with no moral responsibility? Yes. Teaching people to stay alive..... Yeah, this shit if fucked.

[Xizen47]

but you almost have to expect it..."sir, my license is in my truck can i grab it?" would have saved him a gunshot....

a competent police officer would have saved him a gunshot

[kv]

Yep but you have to error on the side of not knowing what cop pulled you over and being extra safe

[Hype]

Yep but you have to error on the side of not knowing what cop pulled you over and being extra safe

It's easy to say this if you're white. The burdens are unequal and while that's a practical fact, it doesn't shift moral blame to any victims of it. If it did, then all forms of civic disobedience would be morally blameworthy, which is often the opposite of what they are.

Stupidity is one thing, but, e.g., teenagers are very stupid, as a general rule, just by virtue of their brain chemistry, and it would be absurd to blame a teen, say, for mouthing off to a cop and being shot to death as a result. It's easy to say "Keep your mouth shut." but it still doesn't follow that we should just accept that cops can murder people who don't. You don't know who's mentally ill, or whose hormones are out of whack, and even if you could, this doesn't shift blame away from the publicly funded "protectors and servers". It also doesn't change the statistics that show that black people (men especially) are far more likely to be shot and killed than others, regardless of other factors like behaviour, clothing, etc.

[Essence_Smith]

Aaaaaannnnddd...yet another unarmed black man shot by law enforcement...at least this time the trooper lost his job...anyone here still think these situations aren't common?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/2 ... 79694.html

A South Carolina state trooper was fired last week and arrested on Wednesday after a dashcam video showed him shooting an unarmed man during a routine traffic stop.

Former officer Sean Groubert, 31, is seen in the newly released video pulling over Levar Edward Jones. The clip, which was recorded on Groubert's dashcam on Sept. 4, shows Jones getting out of his vehicle at a gas station in Columbia.

Groubert asks Jones for his driver's license. As Jones reaches into his vehicle to retrieve it, Groubert shouts, "Get out of the car!"

When Jones complies and starts to back away from the vehicle, Groubert opens fire. Three shots can be heard; Jones was hit at least once, in the hip.

"I was just getting my license," Jones says. He also apologizes repeatedly, and asks, "Sir, why was I shot? All I did was reach for my license. I'm coming from work."

"Well, you dove head-first back into your car," Groubert says. "Then you jumped back out, I'm telling you to get out of your car."

Groubert was charged with assault and battery of a high and aggravated nature, a felony which carries a penalty of up to 20 years in prison, according to a news release from the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division.

The complaint states that Groubert "did without justification unlawfully shoot Levar Jones which produced great bodily injury or was likely to cause great bodily injury. Audio and visual recordings, as well as written statements, obtained are further evidence to indicate the shooting incident was without justification."

South Carolina Department of Public Safety Director Leroy Smith called the case disturbing.

"After my review of the facts surrounding this matter, I have determined that Mr. Groubert’s actions rose to such an extent that his employment with us must be terminated," Smith said in a statement last week. "While Mr. Groubert was within the law to stop Mr. Jones for a safety belt violation, the force administered in this case was unwarranted, inconsistent with how our troopers are trained, and clearly in violation of Department policies."

Groubert pleaded not guilty and is free after posting a $75,000 bond, according to WIS-TV. He's expected to appear in court on Oct. 24.

Jones was hospitalized for the hip injury, but has since been released. He told WIS that he hopes the incident will lead to change throughout the country.

[Essence_Smith]

and another...

that's fucked up and i just read this cop was fired and charged with felony charges

OK...duhhhh just saw that you already posted...

[SR]

If you're black and young and male, you are 21 times more likely to be shot dead by police.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/1 ... 65706.html

[Hype]

If you're black and young and male, you are 21 times more likely to be shot dead by police.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/1 ... 65706.html

And less likely to be guilty of anything.

[Essence_Smith]

If you're black and young and male, you are 21 times more likely to be shot dead by police.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/1 ... 65706.html

And less likely to be guilty of anything.

Tell that to the stereotype people...

[SR]

If you're black and young and male, you are 21 times more likely to be shot dead by police.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/1 ... 65706.html

And less likely to be guilty of anything.

Tell that to the stereotype people...

When I see a cop, I see an uneducated, bully, groupthink, lying, corrupt, above the law, gun loving bigot. Not fair, but those are the first things that cross my mind.

[Hype]

For me it's tricky. I think a lot of people who genuinely care, and are actually the right kind of people for certain jobs tend to be the last people who would ever think of actually doing those jobs. For me it's like: politician, police officer, lawyer, teacher... these jobs often employ exactly the wrong sort of people if what we cared about was integrity, honesty, care, etc. And yet I know that one of the reasons why that's the case is that people with DO have ideals, integrity, ability, etc., stay the fuck away from those jobs like they're the plague. No offense to any of the hardworking lawyers here, but in my experience the vast majority of people I've met who went to law school did so as a backup when their Plan A fell through, and likewise for teaching. Police officers, it seems to me are probably a similar, albeit far less educated (generally) group. The bullies I knew in high school almost certainly either became politicians or police officers...

[LJF]

If you're black and young and male, you are 21 times more likely to be shot dead by police.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/1 ... 65706.html

And less likely to be guilty of anything.

Tell that to the stereotype people...

When I see a cop, I see an uneducated, bully, groupthink, lying, corrupt, above the law, gun loving bigot. Not fair, but those are the first things that cross my mind.

Isn't this the definition of stereotyping? So it's ok to stereotype certain people, but not others? Please let me know when it's ok to stereotype and when it isn't. That will make this discussion and other similar ones easier for me to follow. I guess I don't understand the rules.

[Hype]

fuckin _______ people.

[SR]

If you're black and young and male, you are 21 times more likely to be shot dead by police.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/1 ... 65706.html

And less likely to be guilty of anything.

Tell that to the stereotype people...

When I see a cop, I see an uneducated, bully, groupthink, lying, corrupt, above the law, gun loving bigot. Not fair, but those are the first things that cross my mind.

Isn't this the definition of stereotyping? So it's ok to stereotype certain people, but not others? Please let me know when it's ok to stereotype and when it isn't. That will make this discussion and other similar ones easier for me to follow. I guess I don't understand the rules.

As long as I don't shoot them.

[SR]

fuckin _______ people.

What's the --------- for?

[Hype]

fuckin _______ people.

What's the --------- for?

Blank.

[SR]

fuckin _______ people.

What's the --------- for?

Blank.

Oh, those blank people.

[Hype]

fuckin _______ people.

What's the --------- for?

Blank.

Oh, those blank people.

I guess one thing I meant was that it's a general form for directing hatred or anger or any other negatively valenced emotion. It doesn't matter what the content is because it could be anything, and it doesn't have to have been caused by anything rational (as, say, a distrust of police among black Americans would totally justifiably be; cf. Ice Tea's "Cop Killer").

Sometimes a thought of the form "_____ people are [insert bad quality here]" is just a way of expressing one's anger or hatred or distrust or disappointment or sadness or annoyance or fear as a result of an encounter with a person or an event or knowledge of a historical fact. Other times it can be because of nothing but what they ate for breakfast that morning (this is the only way I can make sense, of, e.g., hatred of intellectuals or gay people... someone must have pissed in the bigot's Wheaties...)

[kv]

body count had the hit song "cop killer"

way to be wrong

[creep]

body count had the hit song "cop killer"

way to be wrong

is that what you are calling him out for? i would have pointed out how he spelled ice t. tea?

[kv]

shhh...reminds me i saw sam kinison live one time and he started talking about rap music...ice was their with his wife and sam aknowleges him then slams him and rap for the next 20 minutes...."ice t in the house" cheers he stands up and bows "you make the worst music ever!!!1!!!" to be fair ice took it like a champ with a smile